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Hi there

I'm trying to follow a modified version of a planting plan I've found in a book (mine won't be quite the same, as I have a couple of quite large rocks to work around) and I'm going to order all the plants on the list today. All except for the Red Lobeilia. Towards the back of the book, there is a description of each of the plants he uses in his layouts & he describes Red Lobelia (aka Lobelia Cardinalis)["as a garden plant rather than an aquatic - it is best not kept submerged for long periods of time"].

Here is a planting list & the layout. Red lobelia is circled & it's position in the tank is circled.

Can anyone tell me something that I could substitute that is a submerged plant. I'd like to keep to the same size & colouring if possible.

Any ideas would be greatfully accepted.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

There's nothing really that I can think of that is red and will stay low enough to keep at the front. Probably why he chose a non aquatic.

I'm a bit concerned that his layout uses at least3 non aquatic species. There are quite a number of plants that will quickly out grow the layout or need a lot of work to keep them under control. It strikes me as a bit of flower arranging rather then a 'scape that is viable in the long term.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi bensaf

Oh, no. I wouldn't have ordered them, if I'd known they were non aquatic. His notes at the back of his book only specified the Red Lobelia as being none aquatic - so I didn't order it.

Can I ask a favour? Are you able to tell me which are the 3 others on the list that are non aquatic? I'll see if there's anything I can do about cancelling them - but I may be stuck with some new house plants that I don't really want.

Cheers
TW

That could be the same plant I am looking for in Aust it is sold as Lobelia Cardinals. It had redish/purple tinge on the leaves. It is a natural plant of Canada which has a beautiful red flower and reaches full height of 4ft.

In Canada it can be bought as plant seeds and these will rapidly grow in an Aquarium tank. In tank conditions they can be put into small bunches and will be happy at 2-3ins when well tip pruned.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
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Keith

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Lobelia cardinalis is one of my favorite plants, I can't recall when I've not had any of it in my tank. It grows very well submersed, but very slow, making only one or two leaves per week (that's why they do good in the fore- to middle ground of the tank). Despite its name of being red, submerged it will be a very bright, light green and the leaves will be very round. You will not see the red color at all. Otherwise it is easy to maintain.

If you want more of the plant, just remover the top of the plant and replant that then cut the stem into segments of about 2 cm long and let them float in your tank. After a few days each segment will sprout one or more new sprouts that eventually can be planted by themselves. A note of caution, Angel fish like to nibble on them, which the plants do not like at all, they will stop growing almost altogether.

Another way to grow the plant quickly is by growing them emersed. You can take a plantlet from your tank and put it in soil, cover it the first few days with a transparent plastic bag to conserve the moisture so the plant doesn't dry out. Once the plant starts growing you can remove it. The new leaves will be a dark shade of red, and are elongated. In good light the plant can grow very quickly and reach easily one or two meters of height. Mine used to flower when they were about ½ - 1 meter high. The flowers are a very bright red (hence the name cardinalis). The emersed form can be taken and split to grow into the aquarium, but the new leaves will be just the light green round shaped ones.

A very nice plant, I recommend it

The fountain plant and Spataphyllium are not aquatic. The Spat. species are often passed off here as crypts. They melt and turn to mush very quickly.

Never heard of Umbrella plant , but that could just be a dodgy name. The pic looks like Bolbitis which grows attached to wood and rock like Java Fern. But the pic is not clear enough to identify it as being definately Bolbitis.

Same with the Dwarf Amazon sword. No such thing. It may be something like Echinodorous Parviflorus which will stay small but the pic doesn't look like that species. I don't recognise the plant in the pic.

So there's 3 non aquatics and 2 suspect. As I say sounds like the makings of an underwater flower arrangement not something that be viable long term or a permanent aquascape.

Some Lobelia can grow fine submersed. Cardinalis will have a red color on the underside of the leaf but this is emmersed growth. That changes to a very bright green, with no red, under water. A lot of Lobelia varieties won't do as well submersed.

HTH

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Well, I guess my planting plan, isn't turning out so great. LFS told me that he can't get the Umbrella Fern or the Fountain Plant (lucky for me) & said he'd replaced them with something else that looked similar. I don't recall their names, but he ASSURED me they're TRUE aquatic plants when I questioned this. I'll ask if there's anything I can do about cancelling the Spat & dwarf amazon, but all the plants have been ordered into his store on a special order for me (nearly $100's worth). They're arriving tomorrow - so I may be stuck.

Bensaf, your comment re the Spat "Spat. species are often passed off here as crypts. They melt and turn to mush very quickly" makes me think I should just chuck this plant in the bin - but is it worthwhile planting it in the short term - or will it just cause more mess in the tank than it's worth.

As usual, I have too many questions - but one more please. No doubt, that's a fib & I'll think of more questions soon

Is there a plant that will stay RED when fully submerged. I'd like to have a little contrast to all the greenery, if I can.

I appreciate all your help.

Cheers
TW

Is there a plant that will stay RED when fully submerged. I'd like to have a little contrast to all the greenery, if I can.

My two cents here, rotala indica and luwigia repens are both plants that can take on a very nice shade of red when given proper micronutrients. They're both quite easy and don't need tons of light. Good beginner red plants

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks NowherMan6

PS, how do you put text in that text box that you've used?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I can vouch for ludwigia repens and crypt wendtii "red" as easy red plants that do well in low to moderate lighting and no CO2 and/or Excel only. Both should be readily available locally. For something a bit bigger but with a nice contrasting leaf, you could try green/red flame sword.

Cheers

-P

Bensaf, your comment re the Spat "Spat. species are often passed off here as crypts. They melt and turn to mush very quickly" makes me think I should just chuck this plant in the bin - but is it worthwhile planting it in the short term - or will it just cause more mess in the tank than it's worth.

Well, as you may be able to tell from the way I phrased it, I got stuck with a few of these back in the day
They would try to grow but the old leaves would melt away faster then a new leaf could arrive. They are not a small plant so can get quite messy.

PS, for the text box, use the QUOTE tags when on the post reply screen
It'll only last a couple of weeks. Your call, but I wouldn't risk it , a plant that size rotting is going to dump a lot of ammonia.
Personally I wouldn't plant it in a tank. Wouldn't chuck it either, stick it in a pot and put on a window sill !

When the plants arrive if there are any you're not sure of, just post a pic here and I'm sure we can help out.

Where are you getting the plants from ? Sounds like a special order from an LFS ? Unfortunately most won't have a clue about aquatic plants.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

When I first added 2 lobelia cardinalis (cardinal flower)to my tank they were 3 inch height. Now nearing a foot in height. If converted properly it does well, best done from seed. It's doing ok in 1.5wpg.

Submersed growth is green as far as I know ?
Out in the sunlight or growing OUT of the tank if you have an open top, it'll gain some nice color.

The Amazon Nut...

Thanks for all the replies.

Where are you getting the plants from ? Sounds like a special order from an LFS ? Unfortunately most won't have a clue about aquatic plants.

.

I haven't found anywhere I feel really knows much about plants yet, but can tell this particular LFS is trying hard. When I ask for names of plants that are on display at other LFS's, often they don't know & go rushing for their charts. My planting plan & plant list, I took from a book called "Aquarium Design" by Matthew Christian. Some of his plans were really strange & weird. Just for a laugh, I'll attach 2 [photos of the weird plans (yes there were more), followed by pic of the one I'm hoping to follow. Sorry, I don't know how to post more than one picture on a post, so I'll have to make a new entry for the next ones. Pls feel free to skip looking at the pictures (sorry if they're a bore).

Attached Image:

"Winter Wonderland"

Cheers
TW

Pic from "Aquarium Design" by Matthew Christian (metallic Landscape Theme) which has metallic kitchen whisks masquerading as trees.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

But, here is the one I hoped to follow. It's only one half of the tank, as my scanner wouldn't fit the double page in the book the picture took up. I thought it looked like a nice, normal planted tank - and as it was the only one I could find in my local library, I thought I'd try it.

If I can't get out of buying the Spat (3 of them) I'm going to take your advice & use it as a pot plant instead.

I'll try to take pictures of my plants when I bring them home & if any of you think that I'm better off NOT planting any of them in my tank - I'd really appreciate your advice. Can I keep the plants for long without planting them, while I wait for your advice? What do you think?

Thanks to everyone (you know who you are) for the varius plant tips. I'm sure I'll be able to track down one or more these red plants.

PS Ingo, I have C02 (one of the kits that you add the sugar/yeast mixture to) now & I've sourced an Aussie hydroponic shop that I can buy my ferts. I have seacham trace on order. I have a bottle of Flourish Excel, but I was told I don't need to use it, only in the case of algae - so I'm keeping it for that. I still don't have it straight in my head hyet - what I dose when & where (my head is spinning - information overload) But once I get all the things I've ordered, I'm going sit down type out what I think I'm supposed to do & check with you guys again, if you don't mind.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

This Pic from "Aquarium Design" by Matthew Christian (Lush Paradise Theme)


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Ugh.... not my cup of tea at all

What happened to pic #3 ? I'd be interested in seeing that.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

ok it's there now.

Hmmmm... as I thought, that's a flower arrangement NOT an aquascape


Sorry not trying to be a plant snob, but I can tell from that photo those plants were put in there about 5 mins before the photo was taken Half the plants I see in that pic will be dead in a couple of weeks and the others would require a lot of work to keep that look.

Try looking at some tanks on the AGA contest web site for ideas.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Whew, I had such trouble getting all those picture up. I had to do some editing & then each time I clicked "Edit Post" everything kept crashing on me. The 3rd post (the one with the planted tank picture) has also had the text edited (yes - more questions).

Bensaf,
[Half the plants I see in that pic will be dead in a couple of weeks and the others would require a lot of work to keep that look.]
I very much appreciate your honesty, but boy, am I upset. .

I thought I did this right & tried to research it. I quietly read the various plant logs, looked into C02's that my budget could manage, went to LFS on weekends to look at their plants & borrowed the only book my library had that dealt with tank designs. I guess the weirdo designs should have given me a clue to ignore this book in total - but I saw this planted tank picture & thought it looked nice. I thought - yes, I can do this, I can follow that plan. So what I did wrong was not check with you guys, before I ordered. Now, I've spent $100 on plants that either will die in a few weeks or will be too much work for me to keep looking nice. I'm just not going to be able to buy any other plants for a while. I'm such a baby - I'm actually sitting here crying. It's 1.20am here, so I think I'll go to bed. Maybe all will seem better in the morning.

Thanks again for the advice. I do appreciate it.

Cheers
TW

Hey Robyn,

Just wanted to say, don't be so down on yourself. Think about it this way, it's better to find out now that some of those $100 worth of plants you bought will not work than finding out later down the track after they've messed up your tank and made your life miserable in the process. I think a few of us here have gone through that path (right, Mr. B? ) and what we're trying to do is help others (esp. beginners like yourself) so that they don't fall into the same trap we did.

Plus you never know, maybe there are more plants in your order that really will work in the tank. As for the rest, as bensaf said, you can probably put them on a vase or grow them on a pot. Let's just wait until you get them.

End of spiel. I'll go to bed now. Good night!

-P

Hello again
Sorry got a bit emotional last night. upikabu & bensaf, I'm sorry if it sounded like I was upset with the advice I received - it wasn't that at all. I know that it's best for me to know beforehand & not plant them, if they are going to cause trouble & wreck up my tank. I was upset with ME & the BOOK. Not to be disrespectful to the author (his style may appeal to others, but not me) but it turns out that the ONLY design I liked in his book, just isn't going to work for me. I expected more from the book, you know what I mean.

Try looking at some tanks on the AGA contest web site for ideas.

I'll have a bit of a look. I'm at work now (& unreasonably, the boss expects me work while I'm here) - so may not have much time to look. I'm supposed to pick up the plants after work. Was intending to start planting when I get home. I might still do that, but firstly I'll post pictures on this thread. I can always remove the plants you guys think will be a problem - but I'm worried about them dying on me if not planted asap. Or will these plants be OK unplanted in a bucket of water, if I don't start planting until the weekend? If I don't do it tonight, that may be my next opportunity (one of my other hobbies, a biathlon, will take up tomorrow night & a school thing Friday night - so life marches on).

Here is the plant order, as it stands:-
- Cryptocoryne Blassii
- Fountain Plant - Luckily, not available - replaced (with what I don't know)
- Dwarf Amazon Sword
- Twisted Vallis
- Baby Tears
- Red Ludwigia
- Indian Fern
- Spathiphyllum Wallisii - hopefull will look nice in a pot
- Myriophyllum (described as similiar to Cabomba, but bushier)
- Umbrella Fern - Luckily, not available - replaced (with what I don't know)
- Green Cabomba

Thanks for all the advice.

Cheers
TW