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I dont see what the big deal is. We have guns and they dont, but so what? A pack of wolves has claws, teeth, and teamwork. Thats something deer don't have and yet its not unfair. Having an advantage over what you eat is what makes you a preditor and makes what you eat the prey. We would have no chance in catching deer (or other game), if we didnt have guns. So we adapted in a way other animals cannot. Am I for the needless and painful killing of animals? No. But if you like venison and get it over with quickly then go for it. As long as its quick and doesnt affect the population its ok.

Last edited by katieb at 21-Nov-2004 14:32

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

If there was no deer hunting- there would be deer everywhere we looked which would increase the number of people killed by deer running in the road in front of cars.. deer hunting is not murder- you have to control the population!! yes- i think its very cruel to kill animals for no reason, but its not like we killed it and left it there to rot- we took it to the deer processing plant to get deer meat to EAT!!!!! geez people get a grip

~!!I lOve LiFe!!~

uhh, i never said it was wrong - I jsut said I had no inclination to do it.

I understand overpopulation, I understand hunting for food.

It is MY opinion. I just myself CANNOT hunt.

oh, and i'm not a vegetarian. and I know people kill the meat that I eat. I have no issue. as I said, I have just seen enough of it to last me a while with what I do.

I never condemned anyone. Please do not condemn us that do not agree.

Oh, and also - if you are going to go out and hunt, make sure your shot kills it - and doesn't let it suffer needlessly. Even if it is just for 10 or 15 minutes. Its still suffering. Just shoot it in the head or heart and kill it quickly.

Last edited by meriadoc at 21-Nov-2004 18:15

Overpopulation is definitely a problem. Which is why the system and the hunters should encourage hunting does, not bucks. Unless you get every single buck it's only cutting down on the numbers one at a time. Kill a doe and you've prevented her from having a fawn a year for the rest of her life. If I'm missing some important point other than people being impressed with each others' antlers, fill me in, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

-Molly
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um.. who says that everyone that went hunting is going to acually EAT the deer?

Also, i dont eat dear, and i dont pay people to kill dear for me.

When i eat meat, it is from farms, where it ISNT wild.

There's no reason to hunt for antlers and toss the rest =P Moose, Deer, etc shed their antlers annually and they can be found on the forest floor. No killing involved

I do agree that hunting is necessary in many areas to control the large herbivore populations where predators have been extirpated. One of these days I will try venison...

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heck ya im going in december! he got another tag YAY!!! i cant wait ... man 7 1/2 feet- thats HUGE!!! i have never seen a moose in real life .

~!!I lOve LiFe!!~

Go get'em Zebra

I saw a stuufed cow moose at a wildlife museum in Wyoming. I think it was a Shiras Moose. I'm 6'4" and she was exactly that at the withers. Pretty amazing, like something prehistoric.

Mike

I have only seen one moose in real life (not stuffed) and it was a ways away so I couldnt really see how big it was, but I have seen them on hunting shows on TV, and they look enormous.

This year my dad and I went deer hunting, we each had buck tags. Now we are humane hunters, and if I do say so myself, good shots. I'm 15 and this was my 2nd year of hunting, 1st year hunting for a buck. I passed up 2 shots because they didn't allow me a clean kill, and when I did shoot, the deer went about 25 yards and was dead. When my dad shot his , the shot broke it's neck, and it fell right in its tracks.

Another thing people don't realize: Some might say hunting with a bow and arrow or a muzzleloader offers more chance for the deer. This is true. However, a very good shot is required for these weapons. Now I'm not saying a good shot shouldn't be used for any weapon, but the more powerful a gun you use, the cleaner and easier it is to kill an animal.

fishiedude - now i'm curious - what is involved in humane hunting? I'm trying to grasp the idea of it all

man- im only 5'3''!!! i have seen some moose on TV and they look huge. it would be cool to see a moose in real life- i mean not up close . this was my first year hunting- when i was younger i thought hunting was so cruel, but i now i understand that its really not. i was afraid that i wouldnt be able to sit still, but i did- i was suprised cause sometimes i think i have ADD .

~!!I lOve LiFe!!~

I can't sit still either. I never stay on a stand for long, I always end up sneaking through the trees. Once, bowhunting, I snuck into the middle of a herd of bedded cow elk and didn't know it until they winded me. One snort and a chirp and the whole world tuned into running elk. That and a bear standing up in a patch of currents 10 feet away were the coolest things that ever happened to me while I was hunting.

Have fun, Mike

Last edited by Mike R at 23-Nov-2004 21:55

Closest I ever got to hunting deer was plowing into doe galloping across the street--the plowing being relative, as it was a volvo station wagon, which goes from 0-60 in 30 minutes, and we had just pulled out from the driveway. The deer broke a headlight, cracked the other, and ran off unscathed.

As for the hunting cruetly mish mash and all that, I personally am against hunting, both religiously and morally (though I sport fish, which some might consider almost as cruel--catches are always released, though). I am also primarily a vegetarian (eggs and dairy not included---cheese lovers just can't go vegan) except on special occassions, such as thanksgiving and christmas. I can see why some people have the inclination to hunt, as I love to fish, though I'm admittedly a pretty bad angler (I'll bet venison probably tastes pretty darn good), but population just isn't a good way to justify it. Who killed off most of the deer' natural preadators? Which species is currently overpopulating most of the world? The numbers don't really add up.

Regardless, however, congrats on the hunt (genuinely).

Not all the predators are gone. We hunt them and have for millenia. What's the difference if we hunt them or a pack of wolves. Man is part of nature. If we, hunters, do it right, and most of us try to, it's much quicker for the deer.

By the way, my sister is vegetarian and her theory on eggs is that she ovulates once a month so it's okay to eat eggs of any kind. Also dairy cows and laying hens are usually well cared for because a stressed animal doesn't produce as much.

And if we objected to keeping cows and chickens where would it end? We'd have to give up our fish sooner or later. :%)

Mike

Not all the predators are gone. We hunt them and have for millenia. What's the difference if we hunt them or a pack of wolves. Man is part of nature. If we, hunters, do it right, and most of us try to, it's much quicker for the deer.

Very valid, but when you think about all the technological advances directed towards improving the human way of life (or sometimes just for pleasure , not meant to sound dirty, btw), wouldn't that deviate a bit from the usual course of nature? Heck, I don't think I could spend more than 18 hours outdoors without breaking something.

By the way, my sister is vegetarian and her theory on eggs is that she ovulates once a month so it's okay to eat eggs of any kind.

Probably the best quote ever.


EDIT: Spacing

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 24-Nov-2004 01:28

Animals adapt over time, sometimes through physical mutations, sometimes through learned behavior. Technology is learned behavior. We retain some of our instinctive behavior (mammalian diving reflex, the urge to procreate to name a couple) but the strength of a particular instint varies from person to person.

I suspect the urge to hunt is one of those that varies greatly. Perhaps we don't need to hunt to feed ourselves but we (Some of us at least) need to hunt.

I'm such a person, I grew up in a household where no one hunted and in fact hunting was frowned upon. No matter how much I begged I couldn't even have a BB gun. 2 weeks after I turned 18 I bought my first rifle and practiced every weekend so I could hunt that fall.

Mike

Last edited by Mike R at 24-Nov-2004 01:44

Yes, but we haven't actually evolved for centuries. We've only been improving on the technology that primates discovered long before the were walking fully erect.

EDITpelling. Wow, today is not my day for typing.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 24-Nov-2004 01:49

Yes, we adapt through learned behavior. One of us discovers something, say the formula for gunpowder. Everyone thinks it's cool and makes some for themselves so they can toss a little in the fire and have a good laugh when the wife jumps and screams. Then one of us discovers that if you confine the gunpowder by rolling in up in paper it makes a bang, even better for scaring the wife and entertaining ourselves. Then one of us dicovers that if you put the gunpowder in a tube it'll shoot something out the end, so on and so forth. We learn and adapt.

The modern rifle is a product of adapting through learned behavior. Other animals do this too. I can't think of any really good examples at the moment but wolves adopt different hunting strategies that change both over time and with the situation. We're just alot better at it.

Going to bed now.

Maybe we'll take this up tomorrow, Mike

Gnite man, I'm off to bed as well.

i fully agree w/mike and the vegetarian quote about his sis was awesome,i didnt mean for my last post to get deleted and if it was sarcastic in any manner i meant for it not to be.the deer do have a chance , as mike said about the wolves adaprting the deer do to, it is easier to shoot a young deer which has only seen 1 or2 yrs of hnting season then it is to shoot an older when which has seen 5-7 yrs,which has adapted to hunting seadson i have personally seen this w/my dad we tracked a deer every year for 3 yrs but he did not get it.the deer is adapting to hunting and knows when leaves starts dropping and for is less scarce and the weather gets cooler stay low and only move at night.hunting is a great thing and shouldnt be frowned upon everythig is adapting in nature and not just us.

Do you honestly think we're adapting to nature? The amount of ecological destruction humans have caused (keep in mind that I'm not just talking about hunting here, so don't take it personally) is mind boggling---it seems as if nature now is adapting to us. The only adapting we've done is turning up the thermo when the weather gets chilly. Also, IMO, deer have a better chance fleeing from a pack of wolves than an 800+ meter per second projectile that can kill instantly.

actually if u watch a pack of wolves or a pair of coyotes hunt you would say deer hav no chance, they just chase a deer until it gets tired then kill it,bullets dont neccesarilly kill instanktly either, you could would the deer and it get away and heal,they only kill instantly if you hit a vital organ and plus the hunter has to call them in or look for signs of them and sneek up on them when a wolf can take the deer smell and follow and the wolf can also tell how long ago the deer was there by smell so they know to go after it or not.

Last edited by Lindy at 24-Nov-2004 19:54

Yeah, expect that most preadators have something like a 40% successful kill rate, IIRC. Wolves often stalk herds for days on end, always just a step out of sight, and after all that work, you're still not even at a 50% chance of getting a meal. We go out in a car (probably an SUV to make oneself feel more pumped full of testosterone), spot the quarry without the need to get in within sprinting distance, and shoot---odds are probably better than 40% that you're going to kill it, unless, of course, you're a terrible shot. And believe you me, bullets are far more damaging than teeth, otherwise we'd be running after the deer gnashing rather than shooting them full of lead.



Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 25-Nov-2004 13:16

My brother in law (married to my vegetarian sister) was driving and hit a rabbit. He went back to make sure it was properly dead (which it was fortunately) and felt very sad that he'd killed it, so he picked it up, took it home and ate it. There's nothing wrong with eating road kill! In fact I think it should be compulsory... you kill it, you eat it!

6 deer, been eating pretty well. I would like to agree that the original intention of this thread is not for a discussion of whether or not hunting is ethically ok.

This is asking WHO went hunting.

No animal gets killed around me and not eaten. I hit 3 deer last year the over-populating has been so bad. That is in the middle of a city!

Koi

Empty chairs at empty tables, the room silent, forlorn.

I would love to go. My bro just got his first buck (9 pointer).

I have not had the chance to do any hunting myself, and yes I would eat it. Dear is SOOO yummy!

A side note:
The location Theresa is talking about is so over populated the dear are actually starving to death. They do not allow hunting in most of this area (D.C. Metro) because for the most part it is all populated with people. In the area I lived in they had a petition to at least allow bow hunting, sadly this was turn down.

i don't hunt personally, but i think this is seriously messed up:

[link=http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/21/wisconsin.shootings/index.html]http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/21/wisconsin.shootings/index.html" style="COLOR: #ff0044[/link]

---

"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Got that right, Moondog....gotta wonder what is going through some poeple's minds.

No animal gets killed around me and not eaten. I hit 3 deer last year the over-populating has been so bad. That is in the middle of a city!

You eat roadkill?

I knocked a deer down once was very lucky just to have the front grill and headlight pushed in and not the windscreen smashed etc.
It ran across the road in front of me, then back the other way, then back a third time! Like a rabbit in the headlights! I was pretty shocked as it was quite a thump.. drove slowly to the local cop shop to ask if I needed to report the collision. (!) Everybody was laughing saying I should have thrown it into the boot for a freezer full of meat!

Which reminds me of the mpeg/soundfile doing the Fwd rounds a few years back, of the American who had knocked a deer down, picked up the body and put it in his car to take home for meat - it then came round, having only been stunned, and proceeded to go ballistic in the car, biting him on the back of the neck in the process. He manages to stop the car and get out to phone the cops, where he also said there was a crazed dog barking at him outside the phone box, trapping him in! Classic.

x

If you hit a Deer or Elk out here in Colorado you can take it home, you just have to call the State Patrol. Out here we do eat roadkill, but only if it's fresh.

Happy hunting, Mike

the nearest I've come to hunting is working with a man who was shot in the back during some american hunting thing and was paralysed, he must have been british thogh, think he was out with friends or something. And caring for a horse who mullered the tendons in its leg being driven too fast across a rabitted field.

I must say, those experiences have left a negative attitude about hunting with me, I do not believe hunting with hounds controls the fox population at all. That said, I'd love to ride a drag hunt one day.

-------------------------------------------------
I like to think that whoever designed marine life was thinking of it as basically an entertainment medium. That would explain some of the things down there, some of the unearthly biological contraptions

7 1/2 feet?!?!??!?

Thats taller than my ceiling! Can't imagine that. Thats of dinosaur proportions!!!!!!

No exceptions for Skunks, Tazmanian Devils or Pedetrians?

Mike

Thanks Mike R!!! It was quite an experience.. i want to go again next year. My dad wants to go the next deer season which is in december but we dont have another tag so i dont know if we will be able to. I may get me a tag but i have to go through a hunter's course thing cause im only 15.
-kristin

~!!I lOve LiFe!!~

Even if you don't get a tag go with him. It's lots of fun and you'll probably get some tim off school if he goes during the week.

Mike

"No animal gets killed around me and not eaten. I hit 3 deer last year the over-populating has been so bad. That is in the middle of a city!"

Actually yes. One of the deer was in good enough condition to road kill tag. The second deer was too badly mesed up for human consumption. I sent my brother in law after the third deer to track it down and put it out of its misery. Lets just say the coyotes got to it before he did But I did make the effort to have the dying deer tracked.

You ever have something as big as a deer fubar the front of your vehicle, you'll want to eat the dang thing too. Might as well get something out of it.

Empty chairs at empty tables, the room silent, forlorn.

I'd say would you eat moose if you hit one... but after seeing one of those things, even if you did hit it, you'd probably just mildly annoy it than injure it or somethin like that!!!!

I'm staying away from hunting. If you do it, go for it I don't care either way actually.

Maybe I'm just all hunted out with all the trophy hunting photos i've seen the past week or so. *shrugs*

from now, i ain't condoning

(besides, i'm terrified of holding a gun )

I'd say would you eat moose if you hit one... but after seeing one of those things, even if you did hit it, you'd probably just mildly annoy it than injure it or somethin like that!!!!

I live where this happens....when you hit a moose in anything short of a tractor-trailer, you die and the moose walks away.

Ye, as my sister likes to say, "If you hit a moose, the moose wins."

-Molly
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