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I was reading in the faq guide (i read the entire thing!!!) and it said that you can use sand as a freshwater substrate. I've always heard that this messes with the ph, and makes it kinda brackish. is this true? cause if not i relly wanna go with a sand gravel mix in my tank any guidance here?

Some sands will raise the ph, usually those designed for cichlids tend to raise it a bit.

I tried going with a sand and gravel mix in one of my tanks. I got play sand from Home depot and mixed it with some shultz's aquatic plant soil. It looked great for all of 2 weeks. After that I started losing the impellers from my filters and after two new filters and the loss of a few corys I started over again.

Sand traps the anerobic bacteria in little pockets and while I did have malasyian trumpet snails to turn over the sand and keep it moving it wasn't enough, the corys must have found a pocket of the gas and gotten a face full while exploring. As for the loss of the filters, you have to be very careful as the sand is very easily picked up and can rip up your impeller. I had raised the intake on the filer, and covered it with some nylon stocking to stop the sand...but still lost two.


That all being said, I've heard other people have great success with sand *shrug* you might be one of them!

^_^

lol ty for that bit of info, i might have been one but its gravel ftw for this fishkateer

I have sand in my tanks without any problems. Just make sure that you don't add too much sand & only add 1cm. What species of fish are you planning to keep?.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/corydoras/
Member of the Malta Aquarist Society - 1970.
http://www.maltaaquarist.com

Hi,
"Sand" is a term that refers to the individual size of the
grains that make up the sand. "Sand" grains vary from
1/16 to 2 microns. Sand is also graded in fine, medium,
and coarse grain sizes.

In an aquarium you can use play sand, beach sand, filter
sand, etc. You can purchase it in a 25-50 pound sack at
a landscaper or hardware store, or you can purchase it
from your LFS. In either case, be sure to wash it
throughly and purchase only quartz sand.

There are two main problems with sand in an aquarium and
each relates to the very small size of the individual grains.
The small size forms a "mat" so to speak that does not
allow for water circulation between the grains. The
small grain size allows the grains to pack tightly together
and the crevasses between the grains are easily packed or
filled with detritus. This packing allows areas of
anaerobic bacteria to form and this will contaminate the
tank.
You can overcome these problems by using only enough sand
to form layer about an inch thick, at the most. Having
catfish such as the cories, and/or using burrowing snails
such as the MTS will keep the sand loose and aerated.

The second problem is that the grains are so small that
they are also very light in weight and are easily lifted
up into the tanks currents where the grains can be sucked
into the filter where it will ruin the filter impeller,
impeller seats, and bushings. This riling of the sand
can come from you, the owner, cleaning the tank or moving
things around, or from the fish themselves.
To help resolve this problem you should wrap the filter
intakes with a sponge to prevent the sand from getting
into the filter. The sponge acts as a "prefilter."
Another choice would be to raise the intake higher up
into the water column by shortening the intake tubes.

Sand, although actually a grain size is also a term that
commonly means it is composed of the inert mineral, Quartz.
Good Quartz sand is inert, it does not affect the water in
any way. In other words it will not affect the pH, GH, or
KH of the water. It is Silica Oxide (SiO2)

Changing water chemistries attributed to the use of sand
in the tank is related to impurities in the sand (you did
not buy Quartz sand) and the impurities are dissolving into
the water (such as limestone particles) affecting the pH
and GH of the tank. OR, poor tank maintenance where the
organic wastes of the fish, decaying plants, and decaying
excess fish foods are causing an increase in the organic
acids. This will drive the pH into the acidic range.

Sand can also be coral sand. Coral sand is
Calcium Carbonate (CaCO3). Using this sand in an
aquarium will drive the pH up into the 8s correspondingly
increasing the pH and GH of the tank.

Hope this helps...
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I have read on another forum that the play sand sold in Australia is not ideal - I think it was to do with the grain size being too fine.

Silica based pool filter sand is meant to be excellent for fresh water & will not affect pH. I was recommended to get 1mm size grains.

I am just about to try using it as a partial substrate in my tank, on the recommendation of many discus owners here in Aus. The silica based pool filter sand is getting harder to find. Many of the places I tried said they were changing from silica based to a mineral based sand (zeaolite or something similar) which isn't the same stuff at all.

I did have ADA Bright sand, but it was too dark in colour for my liking & the silica pool filter sand is the lightest coloured sand I could find, that doesn't affect pH. Plus it came highly recommended to me. Tomorrow the task begins of washing the new sand & removing the ADA Bright Sand

Babel, I hope I am one of the ones it works for & that it doesn't turn out for me, as it did for you. Fingers crossed.

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,
There is a caution when using silica sand. Don't breathe
the dust. Silica dust in the lungs will cause Silicosis
a severe, untreatable, lung disease. Wet it down well, and
wear a mask to filter the silica dust out.

Also, especially in a new tank, the excess silica dust
or fragments, will probably cause an outbreak of diatoms,
better known as "brown algae." Ottos love this stuff,
or regular water changes to dilute the excess silica will
cause the outbreak to die off.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hey frank,
If the silica based sands are that bad for the humans have there been any studies or anything done on what it'd do to fish?

Obviously people have been using it for years so I assume it's only an issue with humans, but if it causes issues in lungs when breathed in what might it do to fishes gills

^_^

hmm well silica sand is out, dont want my lungs diseased... From what i understand the course sand is your best bet correct? i might go get course crushed quartz at a garden supply place.

The bag contains the note "Note: Ingredients may contain respirable Crystalline Silica. Will usually contain <1% respirable Crystalline Silica". I asked about this and, as Frank mentions, the warning refers to the dust that comes off it in it's dry form. When it is wet, there is no dust, therefore IMO it's no longer in a respirable form. IMO any dust will be removed by my many changes of water in washing of the sand BEFORE it goes in the tank. By the time it goes in my tank, the water in my washing container is completely clear (this takes many, many changes of water & rinsing of grains through a fine sieve).

So,I believe I have washed away all (or at least most) of the less than 1% respirable silica dust it contained to start with.

The warning on the pack refers to harm being possible from "repeated inhalation of the dust" of the "less than 1% respirable crystalline silica" in a 20K pack. I only had dust in the first pouring of the sand from the newly opened packet into my washing container. After that, all was wet, so no dust. You should wear a dust mask suitable for particulates when exposed to the dust in the sand's dry form. IMO not an issue once wet & once cleaned of the dust particles.

There are many long term sucessful silica based sand discus tanks in AUS & this silica based sand substrate is what a lot of the discus experts here in Aus recommended to me. Discus are known for requiring excellent water conditions. I hope I have not been given wrong information, as it took one whole day to wash 1 x 20Kg bag & I have today started to wash the 2nd 20kg bag. I hope I am not wasing my time

That's my interpretation of the situation, but I am no medico or geologist.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
Robyn, your coments are correct. That is why I said to
wet it. Babel, I've never seen anything in print that
cautions of problems with fish ( I assume their respiration)
caused by quartz sand.

If you are in an enclosed area, slitting open a bunch
of bags and the dust is just hanging around your head,
then you are asking for trouble. If you are outside,
open a bag of sand and pour it into a bucket (not from
a height) and then flood the bucket with water you are
going to be just fine. If you are opening and cleaning
a bunch of bags, and not wearing a mask, then you are
asking for trouble.

Just don't breath the dust. The same warning applies
to those with Diatomaceous earth filters. Again, its
a silica dust ( diatoms) and it will cause silicosis.

Sand is safe, just handle it correctly.

Oh, another problem with sand.... It does not stay nice
and white for long. Over time, it will become dark and
dingy, sometimes with traces of orange (from iron impurities)
as it stains from the organic wastes in the tank.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

another problem with sand.... It does not stay nice and white for long. Over time, it will become dark and dingy,sometimes with traces of orange(from iron impurities) as it stains from the organic wastes in the tank.

Just as well I have plenty left over, to replace the sand as it loses it whiteness. I washed 40K of the stuff, but only needed to use 10kg at the most

Cheers
TW