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hello all,

i have a large, mature discus (at least 5 years old) that has recently begun "headstanding"
(ie: he is tipped forward so he is facing downwards).

i have had this fish for practically his whole life. nothing in his environment (diet, decor, tankmates, maintenance schedule, etc ) has changed as of late. water quality is within normal parameters, etc. (pH 6.6, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate ~25).

any thoughts on what could cause this? he seems to still be eating and acting normally otherwise. should i be concerned?

thanks in advance!

If no other signs, it could be a number of things. Some that are relatively common to discus. However, it could also just be old age. Though discus usually live longer, 5 years old is getting up there.

If there are any other signs or symptoms of distress, let us know of them. Have you added any new fish to the tank in the past few months?

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There is always a bigger fish...

as far as i can tell, there aren't any other signs of distress. both fish are breathing and eating normally, and aren't showing any abnormal colouration (stress bars, etc).

i haven't added any new fish, equipment, or decor to the tank in at least a year... they have been doing so well, i didn't want to mess with a good formula!

When you say "headstanding", is this a ounced angular tilt? Only Discus will adopt a slight head-down angle naturally (say between 5 and 10 degrees from horizontal, but usually no more) on a fairly regular basis naturally, particularly if they're used to eating certain categories of live foods that sink to the substrate.

If your fish is manifesting a constant 45-degree tilt, for example, then one thing I would perform a check for just to make absolutely sure that this is eliminated as a cause, is Hexamita. To do this job properly requires examination of faecal material under a microscope to look for the parasites, as internal Hexamita may strike before any external ones manifest themselves and show up as "Hole in the Head" disease. The moment you find positive signs of Hexamita present, it's time to acquire some metronidazole FAST before it spreads to any other Discus in the tank.

If you've eliminated Hexamita as a possible cause (if these parasites reach the brain, they can seriously derange the fish's locomotion) then determining whether or not your fish has suffered some sort of central nervous system injury (which is usually the cause of derangement of orientation when there is no other obvious pathogenic cause) is a tad difficult. However, one additional sign to look out for is this. Fishes have pigment cells called melanophores that are under central nervous system control, usually arranged to produce specific patterns in accordance with mood or with breeding status of the fish. If you see abnormally dark areas of the body that would be associated with a specific mood or breeding status change, but these areas are localised instead of present all over the body, then these areas sometimes provide signs that your fish has suffered a central nervous system injury. This is particularly the case if there are unusually sharp demarcation lines between the normal and abnormal colour, and even more so if those demarcation lines appear in unusual places. For example, on a Brown Discus with its usual vertical stripes, if you saw the first two stripes suddenly become extremely intense in a specimen, but there was a sharp dividing line between the darkened and intensified sections of those stripes, and normal colouration halfway down the body, looking as if someone had marked the demarcation line with the precision of a technical drawing pencil and ruler, but none of the other stripes were affected, then you would suspect some sort of central nervous system damage in that case. Likewise, if your fish ended up half-black, half-light coloured divided vertically, and was unable to change its colour (TFH once featured a photo of a Blue Gourami that was divided like this) then again, you'd suspect CNS damage.

If your fish has abnormal areas of dark colour with unusually sharp and rectilinear demarcation zones, associated with the orientation problem, then it's a central nervous system injury, and likely not to be recoverable. However, if the fish is still eating normally despite this, is able to carry on living without showing signs of distress, and manifests no other disease symptoms, you'll simply have to accustom yourself to the fact that your Discus is the fish equivalent of a stroke patient, and is going to need a bit more TLC than usual as a result.

I would try and see in addition if you can obtain some information about whether or not the fish's orientation is deranged with respect to the roll axis (in other words, is the fish also constantly leaning to the left or the right as well as "headstanding" ), as this will also point to CNS damage if you're seeing orientation derangement with respect to more than one axis.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

wow, thanks for the detailed reply!

in answer to some of your questions:

1. yes, it is a very ounced tilt. he/she is usually almost perpendicular to the ground... so, it is at least 45 degrees, i guess, and it is almost constant.

2. i visually examined both the fish for outward signs of hexamita, and don't see any holes or pits. but, i know this is a tricky and slightly mysterious disease, so i will look into trying to get some fecal matter examined. is there anything i can treat with as a precaution that isn't harmful, even if they don't have hexamita?

3. a CNS injury is an interesting possibility. it is possible that he/she could have been struck with a piece of driftwood, or bonked its head on top of the tank (sometimes when they get startled they dash to the surface very quickly!).

the fish's colour looks normal (no strange blotches, bars or stripes) but this is a tangerine discus (orange w/ irridescent white "squiggles" so it normally doesn't show changes in colour, even when stressed.

the fish also seems to be moving around with no trouble (aside from the obvious!) and is not leaning to one side or the other.

very strage.

one other thing that i did notice when examining him/her today is that he/she seems to have a obvious buldge in the abdominal area that i haven't seen before. it is slight, but not difficult to spot. it is located almost in the "centre" of the fish's body, along the lateral line, halfway between the head and the tail. is it possible that this is simply a full stomach? or, could it be related to the problem?

further thoughts? thanks again for all your help. : )

sound like swim blader problems to me

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