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Hi, i have an oscar in a significantly large tank and my girlfriend has taken a liking to him.she likes the fact that its intriguing how he captures live food and its more fun to feed him a variety of things compared to just flakes. So my question what would be an agressive fish cichlid for a 20G that she coud feed crickets, small fish and different types of worms? I was thinking a jack dempsey but he may be a bit to large...any suggestions, THANKS.

how about a few firemouths?? they don't get terribly large, and they are pretty feisty.

ok thank you ill look into it and read up on the profile.i have heard good things about them. Any others though>?

Severums or Convict would be a smaller Cichlid that could work.
However these two as well as the Firemouth do not have the "eat like a pig" thing going for them. Which may be the part that you girl friend likes so much.
I would go with the Oscar if that is the case as one Oscar could be in a 20G for a few years. In the time that it takes an Oscar to out grow a 20G you could find a used 29G-40G for a good price.

I think you'd be better off with something where you won't have to plan on buying a bigger tank unless your GF wants to, or you're offering to, care for a bigger tank.

How about a single Leopard bushfish? They get to 6", are very, very slow growers, will eat crickets, small fish (when large enough), worms, etc. A leopard bushfish with 4 platys as dither fish (and they'll provide fry for the fish to eat) would work out well.

Another option would be an african butterfly fish - they'll also east small fish (if near the surface), crickets, worms, etc.

Eric

ok thank you all so much. if there are any others keep them coming! thanks

How is a severum a smaller cichlid? Adults are the size of plates. Oscars in a 20 ? Why? Since when is a potential 1 foot plus intelligent fish supposed to go into a 20 gallon aquarium- it basically constitutes animal abuse unless it very young and tiny, you'd probably give it dwarfing issues, it would be bored out of its mind. They can reach young adult size in 8 months.

... and a ctenopoma in with any small fish, oh dear, this is a proper predator, no small fish in with that would be a dither, merely prey.

Seriously, this has really annoyed me, where do you get off telling beginners utter rubbish like that? Its not acceptable. Do you want them to kill fish or what?

Is this the horrifically bad advice section of the forum?
Any chance people could hold off on giving out advice to others until are actually sure they know what they are talking about and not just picking fish names out of a hat? Folks who cant do better than that should go to the appropriate peer group- like yahoo answers where the average mental age is about 10 years old.

Cichlid kid mate, dont follow that advice, those two just advised you a load of utter rubbish that would lead you to keep fish in abusive conditions. Sorry but its the truth. Cant let that kind of info stand, its awful. You can thank them for precisely nothing.

Buck your ideas up you two, thats some of the worst advice ive heard in a long time. Do you actually know anything about fishkeeping? Because im hearing some seriously low standards there.

A severum or an oscar in 20 gals , and a ctenopoma with "dithers". Mother of god.



A pair of convicts in a 20 , maybe jewel cichlids,pair of mouthbrooders etc, if you want a predator have the leaf fish, or one of the smaller ctenopoma species but forget the idea of dithers. Thats potentially do-able, but even then the standard should be higher with more room for life enrichment if possible. For humane habitable space no fish much over 5-6 inches should be going into 20 gallon aquaria. Tbh youd be better off with smaller species, apistos, smaller african lake cichlids like kribs, rams, keyholes, festivums, small acaras, keyholes, the firemouth isnt the worst idea, shellies, small malawis etc.

Most of the truly aggressive cichlids are very intelligent, ideally it would be better to house them in larger aquaria, and if you have any ideas about other fish , even as dithers, its not sane to do that in small aquaria. The life quality of fish confined with aggressive species in small aquaria is horrific, they have the right to live without fear, and incessant threat of injury and death, and in many countries, and indeed in many american states to do it is considered animal abuse, even prosecutable. Dont do it mate.

Any decent fishkeeper will tell you to keep the aquaria a decent size in proportion to the fish on humane space and enrichment, not to mention fitness and water quality control issues. Dont follow advice that tells you to do otherwise, it just leads to stressed fish and deaths, and some terrible fishkeeping. Aquaria that are the envy of no-one, and makes their owner, frankly, look like an immoral, unintelligent pillock.

Lets face it, people who abuse animals with poor environments and neglect, and people who force small fish to live long term with fish that are their predator species in confined spaces arent much further up the moral ladder than a paedo, and im sincerely hoping what im seeing in the posting of those two is youthful inexperience and foolhardiness rather than malicious intent, and I hope they now appreciate the seriousness of giving out godawful stocking advice, and the need to refrain from such comments until they have some actual fishkeeping knowledge, and bear some sense of responsibility towards the people they aim their advice at.

Fish arent there to suffer for our entertainment and if you followed the advice of those two comedians that is what would happen. A living creature deserves respect and a good standard of life.

Girlfriends tend not to be to impressed with fish that maim others and are allowed to become sick and wane or become sterotypical in unsuitably small aquaria or with the people that allow it to happen. They tend to be rather more sensible than their boyfriends in that regard. Get her something that is housed in the said size of aquarium happily for life, will live a long time and provide some joy, instead of worry and disappointment.

LHE - While I agree with most of your rant, have you ever kept a leopard bushfish? Yes, they're predators, but full grown platys will not be eaten...merely the fry which, as many folks who keep livebearers feel, is a blessing. They're ambush predators, not super active (but more active than a leaf fish), and many become highly owner interactive. My pic of my leopard bushfish is in the profile section, although I disagree with the maximum listed size (I've only ever heard of one at 8" - most are 4-6" long)on the profile.

In essence, they're the same size as an adult male convict...which if a pair of cons can fit in a 20 so can the bushfish...along with a few dithers. Yes, they do come out more with dithers.

It's really not bad advice - just advice based on years of keeping anabantoids.

So while I appreciate most of your guidance, which really reigns in some dodgy advice, I disagree with you on this one.

Eric

Yes, they're predators, but full grown platys will not be eaten...merely the fry which, as many folks who keep livebearers feel, is a blessing

Full grown, female platies are a possibility, but i would imagine that anything smaller is a bit of a risk.
I mean, just look at this mouth-
http://i36.tinypic.com/11b3vhd.jpg
It could easily swallow something 1/4th its height.

IMO, a pair of convicts would be your best bet. For their size, they are very aggressive and full of personality.

IMO, a pair of convicts would be your best bet. For their size, they are very aggressive and full of personality.

ROFLMAO... A pair of convicts, means 50+ convicts in a month or two. Then what to do? If no other tank for them, your fish start dying off. A 20 gal tank is no place for any pair of fish, unless you have other tanks for the new fry that will come. And then you will also need a place to sell/pawn off the new fry.

I am in 100% agreement with LHG. 20 gal tanks are for small communities of fish, without pairs if you don't have other tanks for the fry. Or maybe one single moderately sized fish, but no large ones. Sure you may have seen it done, and sure it maybe can be done. But what about the poor fish you are putting in a situation that they can barely move in? Its just not right to do such a thing. It would be like you living in your bathroom. You live, eat, and sleep in your bathroom instead of the whole house. No TV, no internet, no phones, etc. Just in a little boxed in bathroom. Think about it.

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There is always a bigger fish...

well not to be contradicting to you, but perhaps i could take the convict fry to feed y oscar, or maybe she could get one convict?she seemed to like the firemouths tho.she really just wants one.

Have you shown her pufferfish or african butterfly fish? They arent cichlids but can be fed live food and are pretty interesting IMHO.

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

IMO, a 20 gal should have nothing larger than a 5 inch fish, or a few smaller fish. If it is cichlids you are wanting, why not try some shell dwellers, or some Apistos? With a pair of either of these, you could also have some other upper water fish, like danios, or swordtails, etc. As the swordtails are also SA, they always fit nicely with Apistos. And SA tetras would go nicely as well. If getting the shellies, African tetras will work well this way.

As for aggression is connerned, pound for pound, or ounce for ounce in this case, the most aggressive cichlid is the gold occilatus shell dweller. They will defend their shells, and attack your hand if you get too near their shells, and they are only about an inch to an inch and a half long. Most ichthyologists agree that size to agreession ratio, that these are by far the most aggressive fish in the world!

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There is always a bigger fish...

ok thank you very much. couldnt find he profile for the shell dweller you listed could you ink me to it?

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/437.htm

What about kribs?

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Get a P. demasoni for 20 gallon tank. They are smaller fish, mine haven't grown too much in 6 months. I think they stay small. I got lots of rocks in the tank, so they have different territories and can avoid eye sight with each other. They swim very fast for being so such a small bugger. They are VERY fiesty when it comes to feeding time. Mine attack the surface of the water before I even put food in the tank. They also rush to the glass when they see me hoping to get some food. They are a very pretty fish. I think your gf could enjoy those. Here is a profile for them on the site http://fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/418.htm

If possible, I'd recommend getting sand for the tank instead of gravel. It just looks much nicer. I got fiji pink sand for my tank.

Here is an article about shellies that a good friend and colleage wrote. It includes several species descriptions and names of some of the more available ones out there. You can then look up those names for pics and such;

http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Riegel_Shell_Dwellers.html

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There is always a bigger fish...

now in that profile katieb it says 2 shells per fish.do they physically live in the shell like is it attached to them or do they live in it but its not attached, do they like them...what?

thank you general hague but she wants something to feed small fry earth worms crickets etc. the fish you listed is very fiesty and beautiful as i have observed them at the lfs but she doesnt really like the fact that there vegetarians as she calls it.lol any other suggestions?
also does anyone know how big jack dempseys get?

lol no, the shell isn't attached to them. I actually got some shell dwellers too. They "sleep" in the shells at night, and they hide in the shells when they feel threatened