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For the last few months I have been getting more and more interested in Cichlids. So I was wondering if there were any "beginer" Cichlids out there. I have been looking at several species, mainly Flowerhorn and Angels, but am not real sure yet. Any opinions would be welcome thanks.

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No real " beginner " cichlid. your tap water parameters really decide whats easy and whats hard to keep. if you have really hard water with high PH then apistogramma would be a pain in the butt to keep. but for someone with soft low PH out the tap they would be easy. Some handle a wider range of parameters and some can handle less then perfect waters but pretty much if you know the basic of keeping a tank and have the right water with the right fish its -almost- all the same.

I am a cichlid junky so just list your PH/GH and i can do my best as to match some fish to ya.

The size of the tank that you have would also help in deciding which cichlids you can keep.

I'd say flower horn. That was the first cichlid I ever bought, and that was almost 2 years ago. He was only about 2 inches, now hes just about 8 inches.

Only thing, they are HIGHLY aggressive. MY FH will take down any fish put in, regardless of how much bigger it is.

But yes, you still have to watch the parameters of the water and tank size also. I have mine in a 55g tank as of right now.

Fish tanks are an expensive addiction

the type of cichlids that i started are where oscars, fire mouths, green terrors, Jack Dempseys and, a dovii cichlid ot was so cool watching the tank it was a 400 gallon tank for all that pulse some catfish. it was so cool it was one of my favorite tanks.

Well if I were to get them they would go in my 55 gallon tank. but first I would probably remove the Gouramis and the Cories out of it. So the stock tankmates that would be with it would be Rainbows, Clown Loaches and a Pleco. As for the parameters they are ph 6.7, gh about 14 KH about 10. Pics of it are posted elsewhere. Going by the profiles here, It seems to me that Angels are compatible Parameter wise. I am going to check out some others as well.

mts.gif" border="0"> I vote do you?
My Tanks at Photobucket

well you could add the angels to the mix that is in the tank now. I have angels in my 150g and have gouramis also and have no problems at all.

Flower horn with them, wouldnt work. they would end up dead. when my FH was only 3 inches, he was in with a 6 inch jack dempsey. and I was bout to put in a divider and the morning before I was putting it in, he killed the jack. actually did it in about 20 minutes. No idea why. they was together for about 8 months and no problems.

Fish tanks are an expensive addiction

Look at fish like the various laetacara, angels, rainbow cichlids,keyhole cichlids, festivums, apistos and rams, and dont fall for the firemouth trap, theyre often recommended as peaceful, but like hell they are, most persecute smaller or defenseless fish! Malawi, tanganyikan, and victorian cichlids are out too, on both aggression, and ph and hardness grounds, though you might be able to go with african river cichlids not found in the great rift lakes, primarily pelvicachromis pulcher and few of the closely related variants, and even then males can be trouble, and definitely dont consider jewel cichlids or mouthbrooders, as they are often positively evil. Steatocranus might just be doable as long as the other fish dont have irresistable urges to go into their territory and the aquarium is roomy. Calilassea's oft recommended analachromis thomasini is also a sane choice, probably better even than the choice of a blue ram, who by some really awful breeding practises and antibiotic use and raising in the wrong ph's are now even more fragile than once wild imported fish. Bolivians though, are typically good fish on the ram front.

Severums and rainbows should be ok, but youd need a big tank, and festies will tear up fine plants and mosses, and sevvies will devastate just about any plant. Sevvies are about the only larger cichlid youd risk in that setup other than discus, though discus are a real challenge on diseases , water quality, and fragility of personality, any of the other fish mentioned will be easier.

The rest of the stocking dictates any of the stroppier cichlids are out, if you do go larger or more aggressive your existing fish will be relegated to being merely dither fish ie fish with targets painted on their heads and a good chance of being stressed , chased, damaged and killed. With the exception of angels,festivums, and severums youd want to be looking at cichlids of no more than 3 inches length and of peaceful rather than semi-aggressive or aggressive personality.

First thing to remember is that most cichlids are labeled as aggressive for a reason, theyll make meat of rainbowfish if you let them. Make sure you research any potential species properly and check your sources, as youve probably guessed the LFS is usually the very last place to get quality information from. Many is the time ive seen people flog convicts and oscars to unsuspecting cichlid beginners who will ultimately become the only remaining fish alive in a community, after having put the other fish through hundreds of injuries while the keeper waits about in a state of diselieving haetis.Dont let that person be you.

Your rainbows scrapping in the morning? Thats nuthin, absolutely nuthin. A cichlid can be aggressive if something sets it off as long as for there is daylight to fight to, and it can last all year. They can be like the bloody energiser bunny of persistant aggression and persecution. These fish never get tired of fighting with any percieved threat to territory or fish they simply dont like the look of. Many will die to secure a territory, and you cant stop them fighting short of segregation.

Extrapolate the term semi-aggressive as - "a percieved heart attack level of aggression to the owner with previously only peaceful community experience".

And extrapolate "aggressive" as "born killer, nihilistic to any fish within a remote radius of a territory that might be anything from a few feet to the size of your living room" and you wont go far wrong.

People are dead cavalier about how cichlids can be, and im sure a number of them find it perversely funny to get beginners into trouble. The cichlid species suitable for community of small to moderate fish are few and far between. Dovis, jaguar, midas, convict, oscars , green terrors, flowerhorns, red devils, synspiliums, most tilapia, a number of the larger geos, most acaras over 4 inches, many guapotes, these are all heavyweight contenders youd want to avoid.

General community and cichlid community are entirely different things too. Labels at a shop might not reflect that. You might be able to put a firemouth, an acara and a rainbow cichlid together. You might be able to keep a jaguar and an oscar together...maybe, if your dumb enough to practise overstocking, you can keep numerous rift cichlids together though its better to segregate according to lake origination, in a big enough aquarium you might be able to keep african river cichlids together, even my mothbrooders and jewels dont fisht, but if you drop a small to medium community fish in any of those setups it will probably be dead, or at the very least, living in fear of injury and death. Small schoalers arent gifted with a great deal of intelligence and it wont have a lot of choice of where to swim, and the agressive cichlids response to that can be to become increasingly explosive as the fish they want gone doesnt just simply disappear. Things can change from a minor chase to wounding with intent to kill very quickly.

Plecs and some cats like synos are often exceptions to the rules, they may pass unnoticed or unmolested. Remember cichlids guard broods, meaning they protect their own tiny mm long fry all the way up to a few centimetres in length from ANYTHING that will eat them , often whether the fry and eggs are present or not. They prove their worthiness to another cichlid by keeping up that level of aggression and consequently defense of the fry, and in that regard even a ram or kribiensis when paired and breeding could turn on a small danio or tetra and kill it outright, or damage it, leaving you fighting finrot infections.Imagine what an acra or a convict can do then, to a rainbowfish. I think the appropriate term is laceration. Its common for people to segregate breeding pairs for presicely this reason.

Im not really trying to leave you feeling paranoid about it, just trying to make clear that people are cavalier and letting you know what you may come up against, especially since one of the species under consideration was a flowerhorn, perhaps one of the archytypal aquarium devastators, both in terms of killing fish, uprooting plants, and generally moving some serious gravel.

If your prepared to set up another large aquarium , then no probs, you can have a pair of almost anything you like, size becomes the major consideration, but if not and your gonna put fish in that community, then choose only the MOST peaceful species, learn the behaviour of individuasl fish species, and the changes that being in pairs can make. Take a minute also to look at compatability between cichlid species too, especially on the area of conflicting communication between american and african cichlids and all the problems that causes. Be aware also that most cichlid species will become territorial at young ages, often the 3-4 month mark , and most grow to near full adult size within a year, often as little as 6 months, despite the fact many are quite longlived. Most come from highly competitive ecosystems and sizes and tempers are a priority for them, not only for personal safety but for immediate breeding readiness.

Thats just how cichlids work, so dont buy young fish and assume they will stay small or peaceful for long, thats a classic mistake, and I should know, I made it. These guys have a knack of suprising you with the rate at which they get to some very adult behaviours, some even fight in the neonatal shoal before leaving their parents.

Be prepared, and most of all be pragmatic and realistic about what you are about to take on. Cichlid keeping is not a beginner sport, though there are plenty of beginners who will tell you it is. The best advice I can give is work up to the bigger more aggressive species , dont start with them. Too many idiots out there spouting rubbish about fish they have no clue of how to handle, and that includes a lot of shops. If you want cichlids in community, make them very small, very peaceful.

I have two angelfish and a bolivian ram who get on well with glass cats, zebra danios, 2 pearl gouramis, a dw gourami and a lemon tetra. Clown loaches, khulis and eupterus on the bottom layers.
The neons and cardinal tetras had to be moved out eventually as the biggest anglefish was sizing them up for dinner. I cannot put ottos in there either as the angelfish might eat them.
I have a separate tank of kribensis who like to play chasee but they aren't old enough yet to stake claim to much territory. They have 3 whiptails for company.

longhair does make some points. I also have to disagree with some of it. Cichlids as a whole are conciderd agressive but they all have triggers. The trick to them is knowing what they are and how to work either with them or around them.

For example someone is keeping angels and gouramis together. Ive tried this combo and it didnt work for me. Mainly because the angel is a mid/top water fish and so is the gourami. The gourami is a threat to its food source so it must be removed. Gouramies are also somewhat agressive about the same issue but the cichlid has it beat. In the end the gourami loses but like anythign else there are exceptions. Angel might be well temperd. Maybe the gourami stays low in the tank. who knows they are like people, each has a different personality. We can only advise as to what the -norm- is.

I keep a 75g tank of mbuna. I have to agree they are insanely agro. This is a fish in the wild that shares space with large amounts of other fish. They have to fight for every meal they get. These guys eat algae all day its all they do in life other then breed. So they find a few rocks with lots of algae they will die to keep it. Majority of their triggers are associated with color and markings. This is only true if the stranger doesnt theif their food. Once that happens they are a threat and treated as such. you drop a pleco in a mbuna tank and it will be ignored. well till it eats off their rock. I would only advise well plated plecos like a Gibby. They have the attitude to defend themselves too.

Kribs on the other hand are fine alone in a community. they find a cave and might mock chase choice fish out of the immediate area but hardly ever become an issue. Pair that same krib up with another krib and they breed then you got an issue. They will claim 2-3ft of space and no swim zone once those fry emerge. Killing is possable if the other fish is to dumb to leave or gets cornerd.

So yes cichlids are agressive. Learn why and when and you can create wonderfull looking tanks with alot of different personalities. Some species work great with other but create havok with others. Dont forget the personality factory. Its what makes them so fun to watch but is also the reason nothing is a sure thing.

research a handfull of different types of cichlids. south american, rift lakes, there are so many diversities there is a cichlid for everyone. find out what your looking for as a whole and work with it.

I certainly think some are more fragile than others. Accordingly caring for more robust species will give you confidence. Struggling to balance a mixed tank of highly aggressive species not the most fun. (stressed owner and tankmates! )

I'd recommend a species tank (one type only not a mix)
want big; 1 oscar/Jack Dempsey,
want littler with colour; yellow labs.

A community may be phase two.

Sure there are members that have jumped right in successfully and gone a 6ft community. But I am saying how I would put a toe in the water is all.

Have fun!



btw If you are wanting a small cichlid community go for multis! multifasciatus.... they are tiny shell dwellers with a huge personality. Very interesting behaviours! Love 'em.


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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

Thanks guys, Yea I refuse to ask questions in LFS's at any point as I get the best info here. Right now all I would be able to do is put them in the 55, which is a 4 footer. I am still looking and resisting the urge to just buy some angels and then deal with it. So at this point I am still in the research phase.

As it goes I am looking for a peaceful Community type of fish to add in with the Rainbow's.

mts.gif" border="0"> I vote do you?
My Tanks at Photobucket

you are going to have a hard time finding a peaceful community cichlid. maybe some Africans, an angel, or a discus.

but i think starting out with something as aggressive as a flowerhorn as a BAD idea. Flowerhorns are a crossbreed between some of the biggest most aggressive cichlids in the world. flowerhorns are possibly THE most aggressive cichlid in the world. i started with oscars which are big but not considered an aggressive cichlid and that was a huge stretch. so if you would like to get into cichlids start with a smaller species. hopefully make it non aggressive.

you could try getting a baby oscar, they are really cool fish and if they grow up with other smaller fish SOMETIMES they won't be eaten. i have mine with 2 upside-down catfish which are less than 2 inches each and they get along great. but it depends on the individual fish. (many cichlids are smart enough to have a personality). the problem with that would be that there minimum aquarium size is 55. some stores say 30, but that will kill an adult oscar fast. 30 is ok to raise one in, but once they get big they need a 55. sorry i got sidetracked, anyway possible cichlids:

Angel
discus
parrot
convict(aggressive)
firemouth
many smaller african.

like i said, if you wanna start slow you should go for angel or discus. those would go well with what you've already got and are beautiful fish.
with any other cichlid, including africans, its a risk leaving with anything ine there besides the pleco. most american cichlids need a 55 gallon tank as a minimum for "by themselves"

Dwarfs would be best with the current stock - kribs or rams are great.