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I have 2 Bolivian Rams, that are relatively new. They were together in QT (as new stock)and seemed to get on fine at that time. The occasional mock chase, but for the most part they seemed to hang out together. Where one went, the other was close behind. They then moved into the community tank and continued for the first week to be good buddes, following each other around & what not.

Now, all has changed. If they see each other, the dorsal fin is raised and they are charge at each other face on, making biting motions. They actually bang mouths (pound on each other) and are either biting each other's mouths or at least pretending to do so.

Will they actually hurt each other or is this just a mock battle. I was told these fish were shy & peaceful, but their aggression seems real & I don't want anyone hurt.

Cheers
TW

My bolivians do the same thing and they are in a 72 gallon bowfront!!! its just them establishing territory., mine fight with their mouths, and nothing damaging has come out of it. As far as agression goes, each fish is its own. What size tank are they in btw?

72 gallon bowfront:Tanganyikan Lake set up
75 gallon: A. Baenschi trio,Cyanotilapia Afra Cobwe(4), copadichromis trewavase, protomelas sp. tangerine tiger(breeding pair)

A lot smaller than yours. It is a 43.5G. I'd love one your size, but no room for one that big.

Cheers
TW

I have kept bolivian rams before and have seen exactly what you have described. This is caused by either of two things:
1. You have a male and a female and they are testing each other to make sure that the partner is a good one.
2. You have two males/females and they are showing off/fighting to get the position as top dog(fish).

Bolivians are pretty peaceful so I wouldn't worry too much about the posturing and charging. In a tank that size the weaker fish should be able to escape the stronger. Just keep an eye on them for a while and make sure that the weaker fish isn't being harrassed too much.

Good luck

Ok, I've had to separate these fish. The aggression never seemed to stop & no-one was backing down. Tanks are peaceful now.

Cheers
TW

I would say unless 1 fish was hiding in the corner, extremely faded, or fins were being torn up you had no reason to seperate them. That's just part of their normal routine and interaction. When one backs down constantly and the other chases it constantly is when you have problems. So long as they are both equally facing off and defending their territories without doing visible damage then they are fine. You have to keep equally aggresive fish to avoid injuries.

Hi Sham

You're right that no-one was hiding in the corner & no-one was backing off, but I didn't like watching the fight. To me, it was more than posturing. They were charging at each other and head butting & looked like they were biting each others face. Maybe I was wrong to separate them, but I was scared that someone was going to get hurt. Never had rams before, heard they were peaceful cichlids & that was what I was hoping for.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

You were seeing a territorial display that is very common with the fish. So common that I sometimes think that they do it for entertainment!

The direct confrontations would go down if you provide an area for each fish to defend in the tank. The area should include a small cave created from rock, driftwood or plants. Breaking up the line of sight lowers the confrontations... the old - "I can't see you, so I don't have to acknowledge you".



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You're right that no-one was hiding in the corner & no-one was backing off, but I didn't like watching the fight. To me, it was more than posturing. They were charging at each other and head butting & looked like they were biting each others face. Maybe I was wrong to separate them, but I was scared that someone was going to get hurt. Never had rams before, heard they were peaceful cichlids & that was what I was hoping for.

Funny - this is exactly the reason why I added 3 more
Bolivian Rams when I had 2 that did this.
I loved the dynamic social tendencies they have,
and how over time they really all bond to each other,
and have a very interesting heirarchy.

By seperating them, you are dooming them to a lonely
life with no social atmosphere!
These are very social fish!
I would put them back together. After a few weeks/
months they will probably hang out with much less
fighting!


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Ok, thanks for all your advice. So now I have a lot to think about. I am too stocked to consider additional rams to share out the aggression, but I can still put the other one back. There are plenty of hiding spaces, but I think they both want the prime one in the front of tank. I don't really want to rearrange the tank, as the rock cave /tunnel in question is large, hard to move & no matter if I did, because of the size - I could only angle it differently & the change would be minimal. The picture may not show size too clearly, but behind the sword you can see a large rock. In the middle of the rock is a natural cave / tunnel & this is what they both wanted as their territory. The larger ram seemed to be able to hold it and that's the fish that is still in the tank. The other one wanted it & so they fought over it. There are other smaller rocks & nooks & crannies etc. Since the other ram left the tank, the remaining one is seen out & about a lot more - when there were two, he had to stay close to his cave to defend it.

I guess I'll try adding the other ram again & see what happens this time around. Thanks for the advice.



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Cheers
TW

Hi there,
just be patient and give it time.
They will sort out their differences.
Who knows, they may even be a male and
female exhibiting mate choice.
They need to get to know each other,
just like 2 people do when they live together.
Sure, squabbles will happen, but these fish are
incapable of damaging each other, so no harm
will result.
It can take weeks to months for them to settle
down and get to know each other.
Just give them time, and realize, they arent trying
to kill each other. They are only demonstrating
the Cichlid territorial behaviour that has popularized
Cichlids in the aquarium hobby.
They will be fine together.
I kept 2 for 2 years together and had no problems.


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My male and female blue ram just had a little spat yesterday. They were biting at each others sides and smashing into each other off and on all day. Then today they made up and are going over their favorite spawning site to get ready for their 5th spawning. I've been told bolivians are a little calmer than blue rams but have much the same social interactions. Even a very close mating pair will have arguments. They aren't as serious as they look and it's an important part of their social life. It's more who can look the biggest and the meanest wins instead of who can actually inflict the most damage.

Thanks again for the advice. Wish I knew the sex of these rams - but I have no idea. The LFS didn't know either.

Cheers
TW

Hi there,
Rams are terribly difficult to determine gender
when they are young. As they age, they will gain
secondary sex characteristics.
Heres how to tell when they are older:
Male will have a yellowish chest area
Male will have long filaments on dorsal
and tail fin, though females may also have these.
Males tend to grow larger overall.
Females are slightly smaller.
Females in breeding condition tend to have a
bright pink belly.
All the females I have (3) have 2 spots on their
sides, were the 2 males I have have only 1 spot.
But, until they start to reach 1-1.5 years of age,
it will be very difficult to determine.


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