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Does anyone own a flowerhorn cichlid here. I know they are a hybrid but what xactly is there make up. Sometimes it seems like they look like a Jack Dempsey mix and others they look more like a Red devil. Really just wondering, I have no real interest in keeping them at this time

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

I don't own any but we have had some come through the lfs where I work and only one wasn't a totally nasty, brutal fish. We had a 'Rose Queen' that was better looking than a red devil who lived okay with some fish but would gleefully kill anything she didn't like.
We have a 4 or 5 inch one right now that runs the tank and he is in with Managuense and Black Belt cichlid. Another, the gentle one, is a dark male that is 8inches or so and lives in a tank of 3-5inch African cichlids with no harm.

I have heard a couple different versions of what they are a hybrid with so you might want to do a web search on that one. Some say Trimacs are in there, others Red Devils. I have not heard anything with Dempseys. I have a feeling they are just mutts....mean ones.

Well the mix is supposedly a Midas and trimac, although it seems as if some say GT as a possibility as well. I realy am not looking to keep any as I just dont have the space and I really am not a fan of hybrids, although these have a nice look I just don't see myself keeping them. I was just really wondering what their makeup was. Thanx though as it gave me the right lead in my search.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

I'll bet my largest fish tank that there is not a single flowerhorn with any trace of green terror in it.

most flowerhorns definitely have trimac in them and other species you may see traits of are synspilum, midas/red devil, carpintis, festae, blood parrot and I'm sure there are more but those are the most commonly suggested species involved in the mixes.

I bet your right Ja, but if you wanna bet your largest tank against my xtra 10G i got laying around then its a bet . BTW what am I betting against, als you must include whatever you have in it.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

Didn't Theresa_M once have a fry that resulted from a GT/Blue Acara cross?

I'm sure it was her who had the weird hybrid fry.

Whether there's a Flowerhorn in existence with a smattering of Green Terror genes in its make up is of course moot, because as far as I'm aware most of the outfits that produce Flowerhorns keep their crossing details a closely guarded secret. However, given the pugnacity that's been reported among some of these fishes, it wouldn't surprise me to hear that there's traces of Black Belt or Festae in there ... I've seen juvenile Festaes and even at just one inch long they were going at each other in the dealer aquarium hammer and tongs ... I dread to think what kind of psychotic berserkers that batch will be as adults ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

ok, I'm going to apologize right now for the possibility that this post could turn into a novel. LOL

first of all, yes Theresa_M did have a blue acara and green terror produce a hybrid spawn. however it's not all that uncommon to have 2 Aequidens species hybridize together because they are so closely related. when considering hybridizational possibilities you can group most SA/CA cichlids into categories. these categories would include genus/species that are likely to hybridize together.

angels, discus and severums would each have their own group because I would say that it is highly unlikely for any species within these 3 genus (Heros, Symphosydon and Pterophyllum) to hybridize with any species outside of their own genus.

next you have the SA "eartheaters" which would include the genus' Geophagus, Gymnogeophagus, and Satanoperca. imo cross-genus hybridization between these genus' is more likely than for any species in this group to hybridize with a species in any other group.

then the Acara types which would include Laetacara, Aequidens, Tahuantinsinyoa (sp?), Cleithracara, Crenicara etc. genus'. acara types are more likely to hybridize with each other than with species of other group types.

there are only a few species that I would consider likely to hybridize with CA cichlids and those would be the Caquetaia species (myersi, kraussi, spectabilis and umbriferum) and then exCichlasoma festae. I think the Caquetaia species are less likely but I wouldn't consider it out of the realm of possibility. Festae on the other hand have been known to hybridize with a number of different CA species.

the reason for all the above information is to explain why certain species groups (acara types (GT included), eartheater types etc) are very unlikely to ever be included in any flowerhorn recipe. also you mentioned the blackbelt but I really don't think these have been included in any FH recipe simply because I've never seen a FH with characteristics that resemble those of the blackbelt. you can look at about any flowerhorn and see characteristics of certain species and at least make an educated guess as to the recipe used to create it. which leads me to.....

now, the following is my own personal opinion on the origins of the flowerhorn and should in no way be treated as anything other than my theory.

I think the original flowerhorns were created with trimacs and fenestratus. trimacs were obviously (imo) the start of the craze. people in the orient were fascinated by the spots/flowers which oftentimes would bare some resemblance to oriental language characters. other than that though the trimac, while being a very cool fish, is not the most colorful of fish out there. so, the FH creators set out to create a fish with the cool looking flowers but with more color. I think the first species mixed with the trimac was the synspilum. why? because synspilum is one species of the "red head cichlids" group which also include fenestratus and bifasciatus. the reason I say synspilum over the other 2 though is because synspilum is the only one of the 3 whose midlateral line (which only covers the back 1/3 to 1/2 of the fish's body) can appear as blotches and not just a solid line and synspilum is much more likely to grow a large nuchal hump. the midlateral line of synspilum (which like I said can appear more as blotches instead of a solid line) mixed with the "flowers" of the trimac increased the number and size of the flowers and also by mixing the 2 the resulting hybrids would show more color tending to have reddish color around the head/neck region of the fish. from there I think a small number of the fry grew up to grow very large nuchal humps because of the genetic tendencies of synspilum and trimacs and these humpheaded specimens would sell very quickly at higher prices. so in order to create a new line of hybrids which would be much more likely to grow the large nuchal humps I believe the midas (A. citrinellum) was included into the mix. of all CA cichlids, A. citrinellum probably has the highest likelyhood of growing large (sometimes obsenely large) nuchal humps. not to mention that the hybrid fry would again get a color boost due to the genetic tendency of the midas to grow a very nice orange color. from there they could have started mixing in blood parrots to increase color even further creating all red specimens such as the Super Red Shock and also adding carpintis, cyanoguttatus and festae to add the pearls that most FH's nowadays show.

the one CA genus that I'd bet $$$ have never been included in a FH cocktail would be the Parachromis species. these species do not usually exhibit abnormally bright colors, pearling or nuchal humps which are 3 of the top characteristics sought after in FH's.