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Hello! I have 4 Mbuna:
(2x) Blue Zebra (one male and one female) that grew quite large 5"
(1x) Colbolt Blue (male) about 3"
(1x) Orenge (female) about 3"

They are currently in a 46 gal tank, but I will be moving them to a temporary 10gal for a few days while I clean it, but I recently noticed that the male blue zebra has been chasing the female around the tank quite a bit, and compleatly ignoring the other fish. I don't want to add any aditional stress on the female fish (I used to have more females in the tank before I left) should I put her in with the others in the 10g or do you think I should find a bucket or other place for her while I clean? I placed a few plants and caves in the 10g, so its not bare, and there are plenty of hiding places.

Inky

Well, it wouldn't hurt to separate them, but my question is; what do you mean by cleaning your larger tank? Are you tearing it down completely and then resetting it back up, or what?

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

This tank isnt quite as bad as the ones I've posted about in the general fish forum, so it wouldnt be nessesarry to do a compleate teardown. The tank has lost quite a bit of water, and the remaining water is a bit clouded this is what Im planing on doing:

1) Taking fish out
2) Scraping algea off of the sides of the tank (its not that big of a break out)
3) Cleaning the gravel
4) Changing the filter
5) Cleaning all the decor

After I change the filter I would like the tank to cycle for a few days since I will be replacing about 25 gal of water in the tank (the water level was very low) I moved 10 gal of thier tank water into the 10g for while they are in it, and am planning on putting it back in the 46g along with the fish when the tank is all clean, and doing small changes in the water until the remaining cloudiness goes away.

Inky

1) Taking fish out
2) Scraping algea off of the sides of the tank (its not that big of a break out)
3) Cleaning the gravel
4) Changing the filter
5) Cleaning all the decor

This type of cleaning should usually done once a week or every other week, and you usually don't need to remove the fish to do it. Removing fish, changing their environment, and then reintroducing fish is ten-times more stressful for them then just cleaning weekly while the fish remain in the tank. Also, a few days is not long enough to establish a new cycle in the tank, so if you're not going to wait two weeks or so before putting the fish back in, then you might as well not wait at all.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

I DO clean my tanks once a week, and this is the result of 8 mo. of not cleaning while my fish were in the care of some one else. I probubly should recycle the tank though, but I was thinking that since it wasnt nearly as bad as the others, that if I simply take the fish out and clean it, it will be easier, in case I do, in the long run, need to recycle the tank (ex. If there are any bugs like I found in my one gallon) I just want to be on the safe side.

Inky

Wow, ick. Sorry man.
In that case it might very well be worth it to tear the whole tank down, and I just hope you don't lose any fish in the few weeks while it cycles again. I have successfully kept fish in buckets with air stones and spare heaters for up to a week. Just feed very minimally to keep waste as low as possible. I also hope that your other mbunas don't get too aggressive in the 10 gallon. I know my gouramis absolutely hate the 10 gal. spare tank I use for that kind of thing, and they aren't anywhere near as aggressive as cichlids.

Your other option would be to get the tank clean in stages over the space of a few weeks, and this might actually work better for you and be less stressful on the fish in the long run. Do water changes and intense gravel vacs every few days, instead of one massive cleaning. Remember to rinse out your filter each time, because what you stir up will end up in your filter, so you want to keep it running as efficiently as possible. This way, you can also only take out half the decorations for cleaning at a time, too. It will take longer, but your tank will gradually start to look better and better, and you will not have to catch your fish and re-cycle the tank.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

Thats a good idea. I think my fish are calming down a little bit though, the blue zebra male and female were the ones I'd be worried about... the other two are typically ignored by them and can hid easily in the tank.

Im only afraid that if I don't do it at once, that the algea on the side may get worse... its already hard to see through on one side of my tank and its driving me mad and cant be good for the fish (I know they like a little algea in the tank, but I think its starting to get to be too much) I just dont want to loose them.



Inky

I'd leave the tish in situ. Less stressful as cited above.

Plus, if you do a serious gravel vac on the aquarium and remove the gunk that was left there as a result of the mismanagement it suffered at the hands of someone you trusted (and presumably won't trust again) then that in itself will start to knock the nitrate levels on the head. Once you've knocked nitrates down to an acceptable level, algal growth will slow accordingly.

Takes time and patience, but it'll get there. Plus, if you do this with the fishes in place, they'll be more likely to get used to the changes, and furthremore you won't have to strip and re-cycle the tank.

Of course, for the purposes of safety, you could always bung in a couple of extra sponge filters and an extra HOB filter if you've got one going spare during the transition back to rasonable cleanliness.

Here's how I'd tackle your big job:

[1] Divide the substrate into 4 equal areas.

[2] Perform thorough gravel vac on area #1, plus minimum 50% water change.

[3] Wait 48 hours.

[4] Repeat steps [2] and [3] above with area #2.

[5] Repeat steps [2] and [3] with area #3.

[6] Repeat steps [2] and [3] with area #4.

At the end of this 8 day sectional gravel vac'ing procedure, your substrate will be clean but still reasonably functional as a biofilter (assuming you're using undergravel filtration). Once this is done, and you've removed a heap of excess algal fertiliser from the aquarium, you can get to work on the algae. If you can borrow a Siamese Algae Eater (ideally a fairly big one) for 14 days to assist in this, then this will also help.

Once the above has been done, you'll be well on the way to returning your Mbuna setup to the nice shiny state it was in before it was left in the hands of your would be carer that wasn't.

Don't rush this job. I know you hate seeing it in a state now, and want to get it nice and clean as quickly as possible, but if you exercise some patience, the shock to the fishes will be less, you won't have to perform another cycling of the filter, and you'll achieve the end goal all the same but with fewer annoying distractions.

Oh, and next time, make sure that anyone you pick as a fish sitter is thoroughly vetted before you hand over the reins. If I was leaving my fishes in someone else's hands for anything more than a week, I'd make them sit a two hour examination paper and expect them to pass with flying colours before I trusted them with my fish.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Actually, this was someone I trust greatly, and has seen me caring for my fish on a regular basis. I left instructions, emergancy numbers, and websites and showed them specifically what to do... It is unfortunatly, a complex situation.

I was intending to purchase a new algea eater, possibly a rubberlipped pleco or rapheal cat. I don't know if I should though because of the increased aggressiveness twords the male and female blue zebra? While they have calmed down, I don't know if its temporary, or how theyd react to another fish at the moment?


Inky

Sorry you have to do the clean up because the babysitter let things get outta hand. Tank cleaning is complex for people not used to it (or only used to it as spectators).

On the plus side you are back now and there are some survivors. Hope all settles down soon.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

Thanks a bunch

Inky

I wouldn't worry about an algae eater right now. Just clean up your gravel to reduce nitrates and get an algae scrubber for the glass. It takes a little bit of elbow grease, but scrubbing algae off the glass isn't hard at all.

Raphael cats do not eat algae, they are carnivores. The good thing about a raphael cat is that it will be able to hold its own against your zebras. However, a lot of people who are given raphaels are unsatisfied with them because they are nocturnal and hide all day, and since many people are given raphaels by ill-informed petstore employees as algae eaters, they are equally unsatisfied by their lack of algae-eating. (And I know all this first hand because a co-worker made me adopt the one she bought under such pretenses).

Plecos often do not fare well in mbuna tanks with aggressive fish. It's almost common to hear about plecos whose eyes are pecked right off or who die of starvation because they are constantly in hiding. Also, plecos are hardy fish and can withstand a wide range of water conditions, but they are by nature a soft acidic water fish, and the hard alkaline waters of a rift lake tank aren't ideal for them.

The best way to keep algae at bay in a rift lake tank is to keep your nitrates way down. feed sparingly and perform frequent water changes and algae shouldn't be a problem.

Hoping that there must be a word for everything I mean...

Oh, I used to keep a rubber-lipped pleco with them and they seemed to get along okay. The pleco was somewhat active, but the fish pretty much ignored him unless he wandered into one of the caves (but he seemed to quickly learn that as long as he wasnt in that area of the tank that they wouldnt chase him) My tank is set up with caves on oneside, an open space, and a planted side (which is where the pleco mainly stayed as the Mbuna prefered the caved side)

Inky