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well, he doesnt want to get them, he already did.. but i have a question, since i dont deal with them

he has a 29g tank and he got a bunch of cichlids, i know one of them is a red zebra, the other is a yellow one with black horizontal stripes on only the upper half of its body, and a blue one with a darker blue stripe going down its whole side.

from what i understand you cant keep them in small groups, they need to have a bunch in the tank... so how much should he get?

He is getting a 65gal tank for his birthday soon, for all of you people that will not answer my question and just tell me the tank is too small.

what other fish can these be kept with?

gouramis? loaches? cories? schools of little fish?

Thanks

Any way you can provide us with pictures? Its a bit hard to identify africans from descriptions, though we can guess or post up pictures.

ill have him send me some, give me a few min

i told him to take the angels out because they will be killed.

well, 1st off while a 65 is a good size, the length of the tank is more important. If its a standard 65 then I would say better off doing a 55 b/c the 55 is 4ft long. I know petsmart sells a 65 that is 4ft long as well, but it's the only place I have seen a 65 in 4ft length. Anyways those are definitely red zebra's and the golden one is aurutus(sp?)not sure what the blue guy is, might be psuedotropheus elongatus. This ia a highly agressive mix and I would not try it in anything less than a 6ft tank. The aurustus is known to be a pure killer with a psychotic personality, although that one seems to be female but they can be just as agressive as the males at times. The elongatus is also known to be highly agressive and might be one of the only fish that's reputation is equal to the auustus. Red zebras seem to have one of the largest varying tendencies as some reporting them to be as highly agressive to mildly agressive. I would rethink this mix and yes more fish would definitely be needed to spread agression, with ideally trying to get 1M to 3F ratio.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

how much should he get?

they are in a 29g tank, soo, yeah.

i think he has 3 zebras, 2 yellow ones, and 2 blue ones.

will the loaches be ok with these fish?

what about a gourami?

The gourami and that angelfish in the pic are at high risk of no longer existing. I wont even get started on the water chemistry differences. Angelfish are very nosey fish they like to stick their nose into everything. Getting to close the africans will turn on their side and shake...this is a warnign which every other african will know. The angel however will not. when he doesnt leave the african will se it as aggression and will fight back.
The gourami is just to slow and passive he will get picked on.

Now all of this does have a minor chance of personalities makeing me a liar. There is also a chance the gourami and angel wont set off any "triggers" that will agrivate the africans. Ive seen a net full of mollys dropped into a mbuna tank and be completly ignored.

This doesnt change the fact about the water. Gourami and angel require softer waters. Its just bad trust me on this.

Your friend needs some advice...like he wouldnt go buy a car without knowing what kind it was first....dont buy fish when you dont know what they are.

hey guys i just got back, and i took hte angels off of him, but not the gourami, he said that the gourami is really mean, and was fighting all of the other gouramis in his tank, so he didnt want to get rid of it.

how much more cichlids should he get so they dont all kill each other

I dont know how many he should get, but I think
hed be best off dumping the auratus out of the picture.
These fish can be demons at the best of times.

I would think any larger, semi-aggressive loach would
work with them. Some that come to mind - yoyo loaches,
skunk loaches, blue orange fin loaches, etc.

I dont think the gourami will last long either.


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thanks.

your talking about the yellow and black ones, right?

if he took those back, what else could he get?

is there a specific number he should have? (like i know sometimes you need an odd/even number, etc)

Oh wonderful.

Metriclima zebra orange morph and Melanochromis auratus. Not high on my choices of Mbuna for a beginner to Rift Lake Cichlids. (By the way, what on EARTH are they doing in a planted tank with Clown Loaches?)

Metriclima zebra is pretty feisty. However, it's considered to be a 'moderate' alongside Melanochromis auratus, which has a well deserved reputation for placing heavy demands upon territory, and being willing to dispatch territorial rivals to the afterlife in fairly short order if its requirements aren't met. Mind you, it could have been worse I suppose - he could have bought himself Melanochromis chipokae and some Petrotilapia tridentiger to go with them, and in the process stored up a LOT of trouble once those hardocre criminals grew up and began settling border disputes with the fish equivalent of nuclear warfare.

The fishes in those photos are likely to exhibit fairly serious aggression in aquaria less than 5 feet long. Indeed, in a 29, chances are they'll turn vicious in fairly short order. Mbuna place heavy demands on space and territory, and Melanochromis auratus in particular is likely to become a hyperdominant fish in the wrong setup.

If your friend wants to keep those fishes long term, I'd advise a 6ft tank decorated with rockwork appropriate for these fishes, and similar reprobates as companions. But, if he follows that advice, tell him NOT to buy any of the following unless he wants his aquarium to become an underwater nuclear battleground:

Melanochromis chipokae
ANY Petrotilapia species
Genyochromis mento
Pseudotropheus elongatus

These are all aquarium terrorists with a penchant for frigthening levels of savagery. Unless they are integrated with great care into a very large Mbuna setup with similar bruisers, the results are likely to be catastrophic. The fishes he's bought aren't too far behind in the headbanger stakes ... sheesh, didn't the dealer TELL him these were likely to be serious bad boys?

EDIT : Just took a look at the other photos after reading WiseIves' comments.

Can't see a Pseudotropheus elongatus in those pics - this is a fish with vertical stripes, as in this photo from the Cichlid Room. However, those blue fishes with the horizontal stripes look like ...

Oh, NO. Melanochromis chipokae.

I REALLY hope they're something different such as Melanochromis vermiviorous (which are similar in appearance), because if they ARE chipokae, those things are EVIL. What did I say above? DO NOT BUY THIS FISH unless you really know what you're doing and you're prepared to live with a fish that WILL launch into berserker mode at the drop of a hat. If your friend has gone and bought chipokae, he is in DEEP trouble.

Oh, here's a pic of the demon chipokae for your further edification (dark because it's a fully grown adult - juveniles are somewhat lighter).

Oh, BRILLIANT. A good number of the other fishes in that aquarium are doomed once those chipokae start coming on stream maturity wise. Ask anyone who has kept chipokae and they'll tell you that it's a demon psychopath - even Pseudotropheus elongatus has its work cut out being meaner than this beast, though there's precious little to choose between the satanic chipokae and the Petrotilapia species.

Oh. Deep. Joy.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Yeah the yellow and black ones.

I think hed probably be best to stick with 2 colonies of
the 2 different species.
Ive done some poking around, and red zebras seem
to prefer to be kept in a harem, with 1 male
to multiple females. Probably 1 male to at least 3 females.
They grow to about 5 inches, assuming it is the red
zebra, formerly known as Pseudotropheus Estherae.
Heres a link to a pic of a pair to be sure.
http://sklepmalawi.pl/images/produkty/ryby/estheraeredred.jpg


Not sure what the blue one is though.



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Think you're right Cali and with that said the chipoke is as bad as a culprit as the aurutus. Bottom line is that these guys will not work in a 29 or really anything less than 6ft, with tons of caves and rockwork. The only mbuna I would try in a 29 are yellow labs and possibly some of the smaller guys like afra's. Just to let you know the gourami will do ok until the Mbuna grow some and realize that the gourami is no threat. Believe me when I stared I had a gold gourami in with my guys. Once the mbuna hierarchy was established the gourami was beat down and had to be removed. The gourami had been the agressor prior to this happening, and was full grown while the mbuna were around 2". they are no match.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

so he should get rid of the blue/yellow ones, then get some electric yellows?

what about the electric blues?

he likes both of them

Go to the very first post in this thread and print it off for your friend. Tell him to AVOID Group 1 fishes and the most aggressive members of Group 2, because they range from the vicious (Melanochromis auratus in Group 2) to the positively pyroclastic (yes, you guessed it, dear old Melanochromis chipokae).

If he wants to start keeping Mbuna, stick to Group 4 and possibly one of the milder members of Group 3 in that list such as Pseudotropheus minutus or Ps. socolofi. However, if he runs with either of these two species, tell him to exercise PARTICULAR care and make sure that they are correctly identified, because ... both of those species have lookalikes that are psychopaths. Namely:

[1] Pseudotropheus minutus (relatively mellow disposition, Group 3) bears a close resemblance to Pseudotropheus elongatus (which is a lurid aquarium terrorist from Group 1);

[2] Pseudotropheus socolofi (relatively mellow disposition, Group 3) bears a close resemblance to Pseudotropheus lucerna (evil reprobate from Group 1).

If he wants either minutus or socolofi, make sure he gets the right ones, because if he picks one of the demon lookalikes, he is in for fireworks in the aquarium.

If he's going to start off with Mbuna, then his best choices are Iodotropheus sprengerae and Yellow Labs, followed by one or two of the Cynotilapia species. If he wants to try his hand at something a little more challenging, then Pseudotropheus minutus or socolofi would be the next choices, assuming the aquarium was large enough. Leave the other fishes WELL ALONE until he's garnered some experience with those.

Oh, by the way, one of my past acquaintances had some of the "bad boys" in a large aquarium. One of the inhabitants of his Mbuna aquarium was a shimmering purple male Petrotilapia tridentiger. It recognised its owner, and performed a nice food begging dance upon seeiing him. Anyone else passing that aquarium was treated to a different display - a menacing, hovering and glowering out as if to say "come on if you think you're hard enough", accompanied by intermittent lunges at the glass. That was a fish with attitude. Those chipokae from those photos are going to be every bit as militantly warlike as that big purple tridentiger, possibly even more so.

Basically, think of the fish groups in that linked post of mine as follows:

Group 4 - the relatively tame ones
Group 3 - moderately aggressive but manageable
Group 2 - headbangers and berserkers
Group 1 - outright evil b******s

Get the picture?


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

he took them back.