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okay i want to know how can i keep my rams better lasting?

it seems that everytime i get a pair they live for a month and then die...

last ones got ich( my fault) the previous 5 just croked...and i just got two more.

all the levels are good and normal and the waters pH is 7.0.

what am i doing wrong?

Are you adding them to a new or old tank?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

How about full details about the tank and include photo/s.
This should include a full water peramiters (get it done at an LFS) type of aquscape, substrate, plants, rocks, drift wood, filtration type and how often is it maintained, water changes percentages and how often.
Other inhabitants, even your feeding program.
Finally how old is the tank.

I fully realize this is a lot to ask but a lot more info is required if we are able to give you a reliable answer.
The only other problem it could be the LFS wher you buy them.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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Rams are as touchy as discus. They are very sensitive to nitrates and prefer warm water. If you raise you water temps to 82F, you will accomplish two things:
o Your rams will be happier,
o They will have little chance of having ich!

Test your water for nitrates both from your tank and your source for water changes. If you have nitrates above 20 ppm in the tank, you should reduce them to help the rams. Since nitrates are the end product of the CYCLE, you need to do water changes to reduce the nitrates.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

ive only had one ram die on me, it was a female and it was because the other 2 paired of and bred and the female got reasl agresive. i dont see what all the fuss is about them. maybe im just doing sumthin right but i dont now what. i was reading a book on cichlids in the LFS the other day and i found a bit on rams, it says rams are near impossible to breed.... mine are worse than my kribs.
how big is your tank by the way?
and is it planted?

Coop,

I have three spawning pairs in a 125G tank with 11 discus and a few BN and corydoras.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Also depends on the type of rams, bolivian rams are pretty hardy and can handle a wide range of aquarium paramaters (no reason to be sloppy with them tho). Where'as from what i've heard German rams are the ones that can be really sensitive.

Bob,

You have three pairs of Rams now? Where did you get the females?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

I picked up the females from a little known shop... MVPets in Kazoo!

I was surprised when I saw them so I immediately bought the fish. The price was too high but I understand that they pay their help way too much!



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

I have a pair of blue and a pair of gold rams and they are all doing just fine. Have had them since last October.

I think the trick with them is to keep your maintenance up to date ... frequent water changes is a must. I do a large water change (50%) once a week.

More information would be helpful.

Good luck with your new Rams BTW.

Cheers - Crusha

---

Those who say they cant, Never will !!!

Ah, the word 'Ram' covers a multitude of sins when it comes to poor old Papiliochromis ramirezi - the poor fish can't even stay settled with one generic name while the taxonomists muck about with him!

The problem you have here is that the original Ram - the wild type that I shall call the Venezuelan Ram to distinguish it from the assorted captive bred spin-offs - is a warm water loving fish to begin with. If you try keeping this species at too low a temperature, catastrophe is likely to follow. The original wild type fish likes water that is NO LOWER than 76°F, and for breeding can go all the way to a whopping 88°F. Basically, it's a fish of shallow water bodies that receive a LOT of sunlight, and since Venezuela sits nicely on the Equator, sunshine there is going to make its home waters pretty warm.

However, the problems don't end there. Despite the fact that the original wild fish is stunningly beautiful, and rivals many marine coral reef fishes for truly incandescent colouration, someone decided that it wasn't good enough. And so, we ended up with assorted selectively bred cultivated versions of the fish (Gold Rams, Albino Rams, etc) and the so-called 'German Ram' is yet another of these. The trouble with many of these varieties is that they are inbred, not just selectively bred, and weakened genetically because of this. Which is why I won't touch anything other than proper wild type Rams if I can find them, because at least they'll be reasonably robust.

So, if your tank temperature is 80°F or above, you'll stand more chance of success. Problem being of course that there aren't that many other sauna loving fishes that they'll live with - Rummy Nosed Tetras are a notable exception here, as being another warm water lover that will make a stunning display with Rams, and coincidentally suffers from some of the same issues regarding acclimatisation ...

So, if your Rams are dying off, first check your water temperature. If it drops below 76°F, they're in serious trouble. Check the dealer aquarium temperature also - if the dealer is keeping them too cool, then when they're passed on to you, you pick up the problems caused by their being chilled at the dealer's, and heigh ho, they die off like flies.

This also means, by the way, that you should go to some lengths to stop them cooling too much in transit. If you're taking them home in a car, the worst thing you can do is say "Phew it's a hot day today" and whack up the air con to produce an Arctic blast. It may be 90 in the shade outside, but if you're transporting Rams, sticking them on the front seat then turning the air con up full is going to see them off fairly quickly. You'll just have to live with the discomfort for the duration. If you're transporting them in winter, then you'll need to whack up the heating in the car not just for your benefit, but for theirs.

Also, try and avoid like the plague any inbred stock. Check their provenance! Just as provenance is everything in the world of antiques, so it is with fishes. Well cared for wild type Rams at a dealer's who knows his stuff and keeps them at 82 degrees or more are going to be a good deal more resilient than inbred fancy ones that have been allowed to develop frostbite at 74 in a Wal-Mart slop bucket. Don't be afraid to ask awkward questions, and if you don't receive satisfactory answers, walk away.

Oh, and one thing that tends to be neglected in some of the textbooks is this - ramirezi was listed, at least in fish books dating from the 1970s, as being a fish that requires intermittent live foods for best health. Tetra flagged this in their literature of the period. So, when you're introducing your new Rams, bring along some live Daphnia. Once they're in, wash the Daphnia in a fine net, then let the newly acquired Rams have a slap up meal. Chances are they'll be a lot fitter and better able to withstand the rigours of acclimatising to a new home if you do that. Give them more of the same intermittently - once a fortnight at least. If you can do it more often, so much the better.

Once again, look what happens when some folks aren't satisfied ... take a look at a photo of a wild caught Ram and ask yourself, does this fish need improving? Does Scarlett Johanssen need plastic surgery to look more drop dead gorgeous? My point exactly. Some people should leave well alone and be content with what nature drops in out laps - I wouldn't complain if Scarlett Johanssen was on my arm


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Bob,

whats your point?

I think Bob is trying to say that I get payed too much!

Bob,
I think I remember Marry telling me you picked them up.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Coop,

Wings works at MVPets in Kazoo and he does get paid way too much for talking with customers! However, he is a good listener when you lie to him...



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Where do I even start. Every where I turn I am getting kicked!

Paid to talk with customers. Yes but I sell stuff too every once in a while. I am by far not the worst person that talks to custormers. At least I am talking to custormers and not other employees. I wasn't even punched in when I talked to you last!

Sorry for the thread hijack. Bob started it!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Don't look at me Wingdisc, I just posted what I know about the fish!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

wow forgot i posted this...well i gave it one more shot and bought a pair and their doing just great...their in an old tank and with a few tetras...the tank it about 76F and everything i tested for is good and they love the tank(fully planted i would like to add ) but thanks everyone i will keep you up to date on the progress