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I am planning to add some more cichlids to my 55g which currently has 3 peacocks and 2 elongatus mpanga? and 1 bn

im after some colourful cichlids which arent too aggressive to add to the tank to fill it in as it looks very empty at the moment!

any suggestions very welcome... so far im thinking electric yellows/blues but def would love alot of colour.

Thanks!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

First question - these 'elongatus mpanga' ... they're not Pseudotropheus elongatus are they?

Usually, mixing Mbuna with Utaka and Aulonocara species is considered a bad move. It can be done if the setup is planned very carefully, but the scope for the Utaka and the Aulonocara species to end up being torn to shreds by the Mbuna is an ever present risk unless the Mbuna are 'relatively' placid species such as Iodotropheus sprengerae or Labiodchromis caeruleus.

The reason I'm VERY worried about your mentioning a fish called 'elongatus mpanga' is because Pseudotropheus elongatus is one of the serious headbangers among the Mbuna, and is also unusual in that it forms male/female pairs Central American style. The members of a pair will then co-operate in dispatching any fish that is deemed to be an 'intruder' on their patch. They have a reputation for being seriously aggressive even in a large aquarium, and are capable of standing their ground even alongside the likes of such berserkers as Melanochromis chipokae. Basically, once Pseudotropheus elongatus begins breeding, it adopts a 'search and destroy' method of protecting its young, seeking out likely threats and then dispatching them with savage efficiency. The fish may be well behaved now as a juvenile (and if it is then that surprises me too, because the species has a reputation for being feisty even when immature) but once maturity is achieved, Pseudotropheus elongatus is the Cichlid equivalent of a special forces demolition squad ... it's ranked alongside the aquarium terrorists such as Melanochromis chipokae and the Petrotilapia species for good reasons - even in a large setup, it's capable of becoming hyperdominant given the opportunity, and has a temperament which has been described as ranging from eruptively volcanic to positively pyroclasitc ...

However, this begs the question as to whether your 'elongatus mpanga' are genuine Pseudotropheus elongatus or another of those assorted fishes that have yet to be placed taxonomically, of which there are quite a few among the Mbuna. For that matter, there's still a lot of work to be done taxonomically among the Aulonocara species, and since the lamented passing of Dr Ethelwynn Trewavas, who spent her life studying these fishes and classifying them (right up to the age of 93!), there is a gap to be filled by someone who will carry on her work. so, I would ascertain the identity of your current fishes NOW, and plan future additions with GREAT care. If your mpangas ARE Pseudotropheus elongatus, then rehousing them is likely to become a pressing concern in the future even if you don't do it now, as this species has a habit of turning modest sized setups into species aquaria by the simple expedient of exterminating the other occupants ...

If you want a fish that LOOKS like Psuedotropheus elongatus, but has a MUCH milder temperament and is FAR more likely to get along with other fishes in your setup, look for Pseudotropheus minutus.

Another combination of 'lookalike' Mbuna to keep in mind is Pseudotropheus socolofi (relatively mellow) and Pseudotropheus lucerna (another one of the potentially hyperdominant pursuers of internecine warfare). Do NOT get these two mixed up, as socolofi is fairly tame by Mbuna standards, while lucerna is another mean and nasty species that demands considerable territorial 'real estate' and will fight to the death to seize it.

Oh, and despite the stunning beauty of several species in the Genus, AVOID Petrotilapia like the plague, as it consists ENTIRELY of the fish equivalent of special forces hit squads. I've witnessed a past fellow aquarist's male Petrotilapia tridentiger lunging at people passing its aquarium as if to say "come on if you think you're hard enough" ...

For some useful hints and tips, this thread on GirlieGirl's planned Mbuna setup is a good thread to browse.



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thanks for your reply Cal
Unfortunately it is that fish (its the one in this link)
http://www.tropheus.info/riftlakes/cichlids/pseudotropheus_sp_elongatus_mpanga_e.html

i have a male and female. it is slightly territorial and aggressive however my peacocks manage to hold there own which is good. will adding some more cichlids calm them slightly? i plan on adding some more rocks and driftwood to the tank as so far there are only a few large pieces of dw in the tank.
when i purchased these fish (it was a spur of the moment thing and mum couldnt leave without them!) the guy at the LFS said they would do fine with peacocks. they were in a tank with electric blues and yellows so i figured they didnt look overly aggressive.. i think i was wrong!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

That's why it pays to seek out a dealer who knows his stuff - provenance again.

The nearest source I have for Rift Lake Cichlids segregates ALL fishes by species, clearly labels them with full scientific names (with the exception of Frontosas which are prtty unmistakable, not least because of the price tag!) and advises newcomers to African Rift Lake Cichlids which species are likely to be well behaved, which are likely to be hardcore criminals, and takes pains to ensure that people leave with compatible stock if they're not experienced Rift Lake keepers. The veterans of course are left to pick their own, and the staff know who the grizzled weatherbeaten old hands are on sight.

Mind you, given that they can stock seventy species of Rift Lake Cichlid on a given day, they HAVE to segregate them and label them accurately. Imagine the furore if they didn't, and someone wanting a nice tame soclofoi for their setup walked away with a lucerna that tore into the other occupants within minutes of arrival!

Several reasons for your elongatus being relatively well behaved at present include:

• They are juvenile specimens and have yet to mature, pair off and try breeding;

• They are currently the only Mbuna in the tank;

• They haven't found a piece of 'real estate' in the tank that they really like yet.

I'd therefore advise against dripping in ANY other Mbuna, and look for alternative Malawian species that aren't likely to compete for rockwork space once you start putting in your desired rockwork. I'd also consider having the rockwork at one end of the aquarium and a big open expanse at the other to try and keep the elongatus confined to the rockwork, so that if trouble does break out, the other fishes have somewhere to escape the demon pair.

Oh, and NEVER let your parents buy fishes for you unless they KNOW what they're buying, or next time you could end up with half a dozen Red Terrors that you need to find a home for in an emergency!

Even if you take precautions to minimise the likelihood of warfare breaking out (i.e., don't add Mbuna whose males look like elongatus, pick companions with care, and arrange the furnishings with a view to minimising strife) you should be prepared at a moment's notice to intervene swiftly and resolutely if the elongatus DO suddenly decide that they're going to breed, and as a consequence draw a line in the sand and declare to the other fishes "Cross this line and you DIE ..."

Oh, at some future point, if you trade in the elongatus because they prove to be too much of a handful (however you COULD get lucky - I would prepare for the worst though and breathe a HUGE sigh of relief if they don't become volcanic little terrorists!) and you want something that LOOKS like them but without the fireworks, Pseudotropheus minutus is a nice mellow choice, that will also allow you to have other failry mellow Mbuna such as Labidochromis caeruleus and Iodotropheus sprengerae alongside them. I chatted to the Cichlid specialist at the dealer where I saw the huge collection of Rifts, and said to him "Oh good, those are minutus and not elongatus", to which he replied "We only get elongatus as a special order for those who want them by name because they're evil ..."


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

i have banned anyone from adding to my tanks no matter how good there intentions!

thanks for your replies.. i will spend some time redecorating and grab some rocks as well.. before adding a few more malawian species (def no mbuna!) hope this works out. its actually quite hard to find aquariums that will take fish back from you which i think is quite a problem for alot of people.

thanks for your help!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

Here's an alternative plan of action ...

Find someone who actually wants some elongatus and knows inadvance how bad they can be .. and wants them because he or she is setting up a big Mbuna aquarium full of ruffians and headbangers ... then, having found them a home with an experienced aquarist who's taking them on and knows what to expect, go out and track down some nice peaceful ones!

Pity you're an ocean away and I don't have a ruffian Mbuna setup live and operational, otherwise ...

Sort of setup I'd be looking at for keeping 'bad guys' would be something like 250 gallons, with the elongatus sharing their home with Melanochromis chipokae and some Petrotilapia tridentiger, this latter fish because the male I saw issuing threats to anyone passing by his aquarium was gorgeous to look at, a lustrous shimmering iridescent purple ... you don't see many iridescent purple fishes, but a prime male P. tridentiger is just such a fish. Pity the species is at the ultraviolet end of the fulminating rage spectrum ...

Yellow Labs and Iodotropheus sprengerae should be much easier to live with.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

mmm.. not a bad idea... i was contemplating taking them back to where they came from .. im pretty sure the guy there will take them back for free there in good health/shape ive had them for a fair while and they have seemed slightly aggressive in that time (note my male peacock is missing some chunks out of his tail) may look at this as an option!

thanks.. ok putting off the tank buddies for a bit till i remove the elongatus. praying my peacocks dont breed again in this time!!

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Truth doesn't always win friends but it influences them

hello! I own one malawi and one tang tank. I have had aulonocara species with Melanochromis, and didn't have many problems, but they grew up together. You just don't know how fish will react to each other sometimes. I have learned from my fish is that they all have different personalities...some may be really aggressive, some are docile. If you're planning on keeping your peacocks (you should, they're wonderful!) put some labs in there. I didn't like yellow labs, so I got something a little different, and they all get along great. Do some reasearch on the more peaceful cichlids, and you'll find something that will work for you and your tank

I've got a fever... and the only prescription... is more cowbell!

Hi carpe_diem, You're in Sydney, right? If you do decide to return the fish & your have trouble finding LFS who will take them off your hands, I can suggest one place I know of who has always taken fish back from me that I could no longer keep. They seem to have a policy of paying you 50% of what they sell the same fish for.

Anyway, good luck with your tank.

Cheers
TW