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i have a small 29 gallon aquarium with 4 small (1 inch) yellow labs and i also have a 10 gallon aquarium with two small angel fish (less then 1 inch). i was wondering if the fish would all be compatable in the 29 gallon aquarium for a short period of time unil they out grow the tank? Any information would be greatly appreciated. thank you very much
john

No. Different water needs. Different aggression levels.

No, i wouldn't mix Angels with Yellow Labs. Aggression & water parameters are very different.


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Don't do it...the [link=angels]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/angelfish.xml" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link] are South American, while [link=yellow labs]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/electricyellow.xml" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link] are African. They have too different of needs to be kept together, and I fear that they would be nippy towards each other...Go get another 29 gallon and enjoy these two variations of Cichlids in their own proper environment

heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Ok now I'm confused. the profiles say that they have a cross over in both water parameters and aggression levels.
I know the profiles around here are not always the best, but I'm assuming that theses suggestions are from personal experience?

I hate it when peope say that you can't keep africans and SA because of water parameters. That isn't the reason. I am keeping an entire SA tank in african conditions because of my water. The reason is because of the agression issues. The yellow lab is built to be faster and will terrorize the angel. When people say yellow labs are peaceful that means in mbuna terms they're peaceful.

Not only by personal experience, but by the natural behavior of the fish. Yellow labs are an aggressive fish from Africa, and angelfish are from South America, halfway across the world. The water in the different parts of the world have such different values, do not pay attention to the overlapping water vaules of the profiles. The tank the angelfish are in is way to small for them and they need to be upgraded to their own twenty nine gallon tank. I hate to sound so blunt, i just don't want your fish to be injured or stunted!

I hate it when peope say that you can't keep africans and SA because of water parameters.

Straight tap, sure the water would be fine for both in most places. But I would like to mention it is not fine to mix them if you have hardeners such as limestone , crushed coral, or use those cichlid "salts". Or on the other end using peat or softeners. Some people think this is okay because people have told the water parameter don't matter.




I was over hearing a conversation at LFS a while ago. This person was new to the hobby and had purchased discus, I know what you are thinking. Well anyway they went back to the same lfs sometime later and want to get some additional fish for their tank. So guess what the lfs sold them?....Africans. I don't the whole details but from the conversation I believe at least one discus got managled and killed.

Johnny, I wouldn't do it if it were me and my fish...but, if you want to try it and find out what happens, feel free, but be sure to come back and share what you learn, ok? just my thoughts, heidi

Last edited by heidi michelle at 20-May-2005 22:43

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

There are many reasons I would not mix Angels and Rift Lake Cichlids of any species in the same aquarium, unless forced to by some catastrophe as a temporary measure. Here's why.

Angelfishes and Rift Lake Cichlids have evolved to live in vastly different biotopes in the wild. And evolved vastly different behavioural characteristics and water chemistry preferences to suit.

Pterophyllum Angelfishes have evolved to suit the wonderful world of the Amazon River system, whose waters are principally soft (mineral deficient) and acidic. The 'environmental furnishings' of these waters usually include submerged tree roots, a host of different aquatic water plant species and in some areas, floating plants too. During the wet season, the water volume expands enormously, resulting in areas of forest previously dry being flooded, sometimes to a depth in excess of 15 feet. This expansion of water volume provides the Angels and other South American fishes with copious breeding site opportunities, and thus the Angels and numerous other South American Cichlids (though by no means all - Green Terrors are an infamous exception) have evolved to coexist in relative harmony because the availability of prime preeding sites when flooding occurs outnumbers the competing fishes. There is relatively little of the 'cut throat' competition for real estate among the fishes that radiate out into the flood zones of the Amazon. Which is one reason why they have proven to be relatively adaptable to a wide range of aquarium conditions. Another reason is that the periodic influx of rainfall (literally billions of gallons falling over the floodplains and washing in from the Andean headwaters) causes seaonsal changes in water chemistry that the South Americans have adapted to cope with: thus they are adaptable to varying aquarium conditions because they have adapted to changing conditions in the wild.

Rift Lake Cichlids, on the other hand, have evolved to live in water that is alkaline, with a very high dissolved mineral content, and which is, moreover, much more stable with respect to a host of parameters than the Amazon. Variations in temperature, pH and hardness in the Rift Lakes are modest in comparison to those encountered in the Amazon. Thus, the Rift Lake fishes have evolved to live in a stable body of water, and lack some of the adaptability of the South Americans. Put Rift Lake fishes in acidic water, and their lives will be shortened considerably. Furthermore, the underwater rock and rubble screes of the Rift Lakes are usually (though not always) formed around islands, separated by expanses of sandy bottom and in some cases, abyssal dropoffs into deep water (parts of Lake Malawi are over half a mile deep). The Mbuna in particular tend to be less mobile, sticking to a particular area for their entire lives, and consequently, comnpetition for 'real estate', in an environment where demand exceeds supply, is intense (and with some species, positively cut-throat). Even the 'peaceful' Mbuna have evoved to be feisty competitors, while the serious reprobates have developed such strong territorial instincts that in the aquarium, conditions not to their liking result in bitter, vicious internecine warfare that is frightening to behold. Furthermore, higher plants are a minor feature of Rift Lake biotopes: rocky screes predominate, coated by aufwuchs algal mats in which assorted small crustaceans, molluscs and other invertebrates live, providing the Mbuna with a diet whose specifics also need to be replicated as closely as possible to enhance aquarium maintenance success (there is a condition called 'Malawi Bloat' that is linked to dietary deficiences).

Even a relatively 'peaceful' species such as one of the Labidochromis will be considerably more feisty than the Angels. If push comes to shove, the Angels will lose out.

Where possible, fishes should be give an aquarium whose furnishings and water chemistry parameters match those of the original wild biotope. Fishes from diverse locations that are classified as 'community' fishes tend to be thus classified because their wild biotopes are sufficiently similar to allow compatible coexistence in an aquarium, and because the species concerned have behavioural features that lend themselves to such mixing. However, there are exceptions: the Angel Fish provides two such classic exceptions, being incompatible with Neons (because the Neons will end up as lunch when the Angelfishes grow large) and Tiger Barbs (because the Tiger Barbs have a well-documented propensity for fin-nipping).

Now an experienced aquarist could, in theory, keep these fishes together for a short period if some catastrophe (such as a tank seal burst) forced the issue while a new aquarium was being prepared to replace the one struck by the catastrophe. But most experienced aquarists wouldn't try keeping such a combination together long term, for the reasons cited above.

Hope this helps.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002