FishProfiles.com Message Forums

I'm currently considering getting a 25 gallon tank in the near future. I've been reading up on the proper way to set up a tank, water testing, cycling, etc. Plus, I had a 10 gallon tank with a small school of Danios before, so I am not a complete stranger to the fish world.

I stopped at the fish store today to take a look at some possible fish I might like to get, and for some reason the Black Moor fish really stuck out to me.

I've been reading up on the internet about them, however, some websites say different things about them... So I wanted to try and get some of your opinions on some things.

First of all, if any of you guys know of any great websites about Black Moors or about having aquariums in general, I would love to know about them.

Also, I read one website that went on about how aquariums shouldn't have gravel at the bottom due to fish choking on the pieces and food spoiling under the gravel. This was the only website I found that said such things and I was wondering what your guys' take on that was. Is gravel such a bad thing? If I don't use gravel in my aquarium, what can I use (with the Black Moors)?

I read about how Black Moors can sometimes scrape their eyes on sharp objects in the aquarium. Besides silk plants, does anyone have any good suggestions for things that Black Moors might like in their tank?

I only plan on getting 2 Black Moors... I know that space wise, in a 25 gallon tank, I shouldn't keep any more. But will they be alright just as 2? Or if 2 Black Moors are too much for a 25 gallon tank, what else could I keep with one Black Moor? (Would one Black Moor be happy on its own with other small fish or not?)

I am very open to any comments anyone has about anything to do with Black Moors. If any of you have them or have had them please share any tibits of info with me about them. I appreciate any comments, opinions, etc. Thanks guys!

First off, welcome to FishProfiles, I'm glad you found us!

A gravel substrate willl be fine for black moors, as it will with *most* fish. I don't think you have to worry about that.

2 goldies in a 25 gallon is really pushing it---they deserve to be in really double that. Goldies of all kinds are big waste producers and are very messy, and will add a lot to the ammonia level of that tank.

It's good that you have been reading up and doing your research. Have you read all the articles on this site? There's a couple good ones on beginner tanks, and on cycling and whatnot. You may want to read them.

Question...were you planning on heating this tank? The temperature is a good starting place for stocking. Usually IMO goldfish do best by themselves, but there are other options.

*can't remember what else was asked* *goes back and checks*

EDIT: About the food spoiling under the gravel-as long as you don't overfeed, you shouldn't really have much of a problem with that, although weekly gravel vacs will still be a must.

HTH a little

Last edited by Ferretfish at 03-Feb-2005 13:42

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

I can attest to 2 fish pushing it in a 25. I have two fancies in a 36 gallon bowfront and they are about 3.5 inches atm. For optimal health all fish should be kept in tanks with reasonable nitrate levels - that is, below 40ppm. Nitrates come down with your regular water changes. To give you an idea, I cannot keep my tank below 40ppm with weekly, 30% water changes. They just produce that much waste. Ideally, they should be in 20ppm or less. We now know that high nitrates cause immunity problems and dilated blood vessels. As immunity drops they begin to catch all kinds of things since tanks are basically a pathogen soup. Provided you keep ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and temp in line, you will likely never have sickness. However, get caught up in life or get sick and slack off a bit, and bang! I got sick and for the first time, my 20 gallon long went a bit neglected and I've had some sickness and death, I'm sad to say. More water and understocking is much more forgiving, otherwise, you've got to be really dedicated. In a 25 g, I can guarantee you that those small 1 or 2 inch fish will be as big as your hand in under 2 years. Before that time, you'll find yourself doing water changes every other day just to keep up. Now, one black moor in a 25 may make be fine, provided there are plans down the road to upgrade to something big, at which time you can add more.

As for gravel, the advice comes from a fantastic book written by two experts in the goldfish and koi community. You can get it cheaply at Amazon.com.

[link=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0834804484/qid=1107655975/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-7015727-3377650?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0834804484/qid=1107655975/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-7015727-3377650?v=glance&s=books&n=507846" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

They recommend a single layer of 1/2 inch pebbles. I have done this in my tank. The purpose, as the authors explain, is that it is inevitable that goldfish will eventually get "rockitis", that is a rock stuck in their throat. They swim around with their mouth open and you find yourself grabbing the fish and a set of tweezers to get it out. Is it a 100% certainty? No. Many people have put plain gravel in their tank and not had a problem. It is just a potential risk. By layering the stones in a single layer, you eliminate the risk of trapped food.

Because I gravel vac to the glass each week, I'm able to pull up anything that is trapped. Food will get pushed down and trapped into any gravel. But, with larger stones, you need to be methodical and get the entire bottom. I do 100% gravel vacs because my Emporer 280 completely handles the bioload and I don't need to worry about mini-cycles from aggressive vac'ing.

The gravel issue becomes one of preference. Just know that if you do it and ever see a fish swimming around with its mouth open, grab the fish and the tweezers .

Another consideration is to go with a planted tank using something like Eco-Complete. I would think if that got stuck they could break it down, but I could be wrong. Goldfish eat plants, but aren't interested in some.

A good site, in addition to ours, is GoldfishParadise.com. I belong to this site as well as that one, in addition to AquaticPlantCentral.com.

I hope you won't leave us

Diane

Oops! I meant to attach a picture of my tank. Excuse the cords in the background - I'm not finished yet and it is temporary. I have a salt container in the bottom slowly dissolving salt after one fish injured its tail fin.



Cory_Di attached this image:

These pics are a year old. They were about 1.5 inches at the time. One is approaching 4 inches

The bowl was a joke - I wanted to give new meaning to "fish bowl".


Cory_Di attached this image:



Last edited by Cory_Di at 05-Feb-2005 20:34[/font]