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I think in MHO that goldfish cause ALOT of problems on this site, like with the minimum tank size and Sesame Street. They start arguements and are abused by people putting them in bowls. It's like just get a friggin lisence because alot of "fish people" could give a rats arse about where they put their 25cent fish. For Example:

Man walks into store, man buys feeder fish and a bowl. Man puts feeder in a bowl.


Now why would you put a _FEEDER_ in a freakin' bowl. It's not like your saving the freakin' thing, your just stunting it and dragging out the pain. And then everyone rags on you if you post here. So how about there is like a law for LFS's that they cant sell a goldfish without the proper care?

If this post doesnt make sense, dont worry. It shouldnt.

Thats my 2cents, not that it matters.

Nice idea, but if we cant get people to raise kids without keeping them in closets for 12 years. Or dogs without sticking them in little yards...what chance does a goldfish have .

Passing a law would be one thing...inforcing it is a nother matter entirely .


^_^
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I read this the other day.

http://www.villagevoice.com/nyclife/0503,crosley,60118,15.html

It's about a person who advocates buying goldfish, putting them in a bowl, and then buying new ones when they die... because it's trendy!!! The title led me to believe there would be the opposite message. But what do you expect from the Village Voice. My point being, articles like THAT do not help the cause...

NOTE: I DO NOT read that particular paper. Just that article because I thought it would have a different point.

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Back in the saddle!

*shrug*

I hate to say it but that's life. As an LFS employee, I'm forced to allow people to buy goldfish for tanks too small everyday. My own age/size doesn't help prove my point to all the customers. I can tell them it's wrong, but they say one of the following:

"Oh it's just a fish. We can get another when it dies."

"I had a friend who kept it this way. He'll be fine."

"He'll only grow to be the size of his tank. Don't worry about it."

"I had one like this before. He was happy and lived for many years."

Blech.

Sometimes I'm blessed with very sweet customers, who follow my advice ask for me when they come back.

Sometimes, you get the stubborn customers who are convinced their way is right, and no matter what you do they don't change their opinion.

It's hard, but you just have to deal with it.

Unfortunately, as much as I agree with you, goldfish abuse is not nearly something this country will be dealing with anytime soon.

>.<

Last edited by Ferretfish at 25-Jan-2005 11:21

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

that article is ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE I mean it's one thing to keep a fish in a bowl if you're 4 years old and don't know any better. But for an adult to do so and fully expect them to die in like 2 weeks and not even bother to do 1 second of research on the living thing in their posession... That article makes me sick, if you read it, it'll make you sick too.

I couldnt get past the photo of a goldfish on a radiator

But, people more often than not care about trends rather than animals life or the environment. Only thing one can hope is that either they'll get tired of gettting goldfish ever day or they'll become addicted and see the error of their ways.

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when I first saw the picture I thought it was meant to show where NOT to put a goldfish bowl. And the article still kind of made that point.. except the final conclusion was, you probably shouldnt treat your fish like crap, but it doesnt matter cause you can buy a new one in a few weeks cause they're so cheap. Wonderful.

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Back in the saddle!

yeah... what a horrible article, it didnt make that much sense to me. Anyways, goldfish scare me, too many people fighting about how they should be taken care of.

I love my goldfish . I rescued him from my boss...yes she had 3 in a shallow grave on her dineing room table....

I lost two of them, the third is rather happy in the pond I now have in my living room. He'll need a larger pond soon though...

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Really the way people keep the fish is ther own personal way. DONT FORGET THAT! no one can tell anyone that they are wrong in their tank size.]:|

no one can tell anyone that they are wrong in their tank size.

Yes, they can.

If you (not anyone in particular) have a goldfish in a bowl, YES you do have the fish in the wrong tank size. Even for a couple days it is too small. Opinion is one thing, but this isn't a matter of opinion. Any person with some degree of knowledge in the aquarium hobby should know that goldfish don't belong in bowls.

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They shade the glow of it with their mossy-misty costumes,
They wear masks of silk, porcelain, brass, and silver,
So as not to mislead with their own, ordinary faces.

Agree VERY STRONGLY with Janna. Obviously no one has to listen, but I have the same right to tell someone they're mistreating their goldfish as I do to tell them they're mistreating their child by locking it in a hot car. I have absolutely no problem telling the truth when it can save lives.

-Molly
Visit shelldwellers.com!

Really the way people keep the fish is ther own personal way. DONT FORGET THAT! no one can tell anyone that they are wrong in their tank size.

Ummmm....I think there is a problem with this statement in that it assumes that people would reject ANY advice provided. Many are unaware of facts that have been proven time and again - like surface area as it relates to oxygen, toxin buildup as it relates to overstocking, and so on.

Ask the ASPCA if it is ok to keep a dog on a chain with a collar that embeds into its neck, in a yard with no food or water, nor shelter. Does the person have a right to do this? NOT! - In fact, its against the law and you can go to jail.

Unfortunately, fish are unprotected.

I'm with Janna and Mouse - I will speak my mind, state the facts as NATURE has them, and hope like hell that individual has an ounce of compassion for a living creature.

I have annoyed many fish store personnel when I so rudely interrupted hideous advice being given. Its funny when the associate sees that he didn't make that sale of 5 goldfish for a 10 gallon kit (bought that day), but the people did walk away with a brand new test kit, New and Improved Cycle, and a plan to return in a few days for some White Clouds or Danios.

I've stated it before - I can put YOU in a closet with barely enough room to stand. I can feed you. Provide you with fluid. I can even give you a bucket to crap in and collect it from you to empty once a week. I'll make sure there is a light for you at least 8 hours a day and try to turn on a lower light before and after so you aren't shocked. I'll keep you in this environment until you die.

Now, how long will it take you to crack up? How long will it take your health to deteriorate just from the inability to move, excercise and stretch? Fish have a much lower level of intelligence, but they still require mental stimulation.

This is what happens to bettas kept in cups for prolonged periods and to goldfish kept in bowls. Show me the longest living betta and I'll show you a betta that had the ability to move. In fact, the longest living betta was made to exercise and move. They determined that just like us, their veins clog from inactivity. Gee, ain't that something?

While it is important to feed, provide clean water, and room to move, mental stimulation is one more thing on every good fishkeeper's list of compassionate activities. Many experts recommend changing the tank around where practical at least twice year. Try that in a bowl where the fish can barely turn.

Yeah - I'll speak up against cruelty as my God given right and to avoid what we would call the sin of ommission (seeing a wrong and standing there with your head up your behind). And, if someone chooses to be an a$$hole and disregard the advice or not explore it further, then by-golly, that is their perogative.

Many of us strive here to pass along good practices for healthy environments and fish. How shallow it is for anyone to discourage that.

*steps off soapbox*

Last edited by Cory_Di at 25-Jan-2005 18:38

[font color="#000080"] I couldn't help but being revolted by that article. I couldn't simply read it; I HAD to do something about it... soooo, I emailed the Editor with the following: [/font]

[font color="#008000"]Your article "The Essay - Heavy Petting. In a city where dogs are treated like test babies, there's no love for the lowly goldfish" (by Sloane Crosley) is simply revolting. Goldfish (as any living creature) should receive respect for being the exquisite creatures they are. NOBODY, only ignorant uneducated consumers, would place a goldfish in a bowl. That is called MURDER.

People should do a little research BEFORE they acquire a goldfish and realize that they need AT THE VERY MINIMUM 10 gallons for the first fish, and then 10 gallons for each additional fish thereafter. There are certain varieties of goldfish who require even more!!!

Further, goldfish are creatures who put out a large bio-load, therefore they will require weekly changes of water. There is a lot to owning a goldfish correctly and essays like the one posted in your magazine only help the myth of "goldfish bowls." It is cruel and inhumane. Period. Goldfish are murdered by this practice and some people don't care because "it's only a fish." What does that say of their human nature, I wonder....??

Thank you for your time and for allowing me to express my views.

PATRICIA
Dallas, Texas [/font]

[font color="#000080"]No, I'm no saint; I just had to act. It is my right to express my views in a respectful manner (FREEDOM OF SPEECH). It is his to make up his mind, but at least HE WAS TOLD. No excuses.

What that guy described was truly revolting. What does that say of these humans....?? "hey, kill any creatures just because it's an animal... it's Ok." That's nauseating...!! [/font]
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