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Sure you could keep them in a pond that size. You can also keep a sugared up 5 year old in a computer box. Or for that matter you can keep a human in a closet for 14 years. The problem in all three cases is actual room to move.
Fishkeeping is not just a matter of keeping X fish alive in Y condition. After all we all know that bettas can survive in wet paper towels for shipping. Fishkeeping is a matter of keeping the fish as happy as possible outside of their natural habitat. In the case of goldfish, they're active carp that IMO will use as much swimming room as they're given.
Feel free to imprison the fish in that sized pond, but don't expect me to endorse it.

^_^[hr width='40%']"Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate,what creates my own madness...
and I am waiting for disaster"

what fish could live in a pond thats average temp is...

[link=http://www.condoconcepts.com/weather/osydney.htm ]http://www.condoconcepts.com/weather/osydney.htm [/link]

Last edited by dude_dude at 07-Mar-2005 04:10

Umm, I think this subject has been exhausted and we are not going to get anywhere. We all have expressed our honest opinions and dude_dude is left with the vast information given here to make his decisions, I would encourage you to make your own research to come to your own conclusion, whichever they might be.

My final note is on the barbs, and I'm not making it to have the last say, feel free to send me hate mail if you wish, but the profiles here say that the minimum temperature for barbs is around 18 - 20 c degrees. This is too cold even for Sydney as temperatures in the winter can go down to about 12c. In that respect White Cloud Mountain Minnows make a better choice for your pond. They will also keep you out of the firing line between people with different opinions about goldfish in that size of pond.

Good luck with the pond and don't forget to post some pictures when you finall get to construct it.

Wow I just realized you were right old! This is exactly why everyone finds living our entire lives in a coffin perfectly comfortable!*

^_^


*For those that didnt' get it, this is an example of sarcasm.

[hr width='40%']"There’s an emptiness inside her. And she’d do anything to fill it in.
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now. It's more like cold blue ice in her heart.
She feels like kicking out all the windows. And setting fire to this life."

Thanks for keeping me straight Babel. I guess I just hadn't figured out that goldfish were carp after 30+ years of keeping them. Oh by the way - successfully. Anyways, just wanted to have the last word - probably not, but that's okay.

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Off topic or not something needs to be clarified to remove a misconception that old timer is just insisting on reinforcing. Common goldfish, feeder fish are carp. [link=This is their profile]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/goldfish.xml" style="COLOR: #EB4288[/link] . A fish that gets 2 feet in length, and is an active swimmer will not be comfortable in a pond that is only twice their size. A fish that is kept in that sized environment will be stunted. Stunting causes pain and premature death. For a pond the size that is being discussed smaller fish should be chosen.
Hope that covers everything.

^_^ [hr width='40%']"There’s an emptiness inside her. And she’d do anything to fill it in.
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now. It's more like cold blue ice in her heart.
She feels like kicking out all the windows. And setting fire to this life."

thanx

Babel, I agree with you in that I would never attempt to keep a Koi in that size of a pond, but as my "goldfish" are just common feeders, it may be that they just won't get to that size. Anyways, I think we kind of veered off the original quesion with our ramblings. Have a great day all

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

My "measuring stick" would have to be one of koi keepers goldies, the one pictured in the profile. This one reached 9" @two years of age.
Considering that oz will have a much longer warm period than most areas in the states, I still stand by my original view, that sized pond, while much better than what most goldfish are forced into shouldnt be stocked with goldfish unless absolutly necessary (ie: goldfish rescues). If the ponds being built I still suggest larger lenth and width dimensions. Especially since people always want larger ones anyway .

^_^
[hr width='40%']"There’s an emptiness inside her. And she’d do anything to fill it in.
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now. It's more like cold blue ice in her heart.
She feels like kicking out all the windows. And setting fire to this life."

And if a 55 gallon tank which is 4' long but not close to 4' wide or deep is good enough for 1 goldfish, then again I feel that a pond 4' x 4' x 4' should be adequate for a couple of common goldfish. I have yet to get any of my goldfish to get anywhere's near 2'. None are even close to a foot yet and are approaching 4 years in age, howeever maybe that is because of the slower winter growth.

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Close...it's more along the lines of a 40-55 for one goldie.









[hr width='40%'][font color="#000080"]"I know that you are something special, To you I'd be always faithful
I want to be what you always needed, Then I hope you'll see the heart in me"[/font]

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

I'm curious -- what do you think is the minimum humane size for a goldfish?

Dunno who u were asking but I think 30 gals is the very minimum 4 a fancy or black moor.

It's not the gallonage I have a problem with it's the dimensions

4' 4' 4'?

For a fish that easily gets 2 feet long I'd say it needs to be @least 5X5X4. Longer would be better as it would enable them to have plenty of room to swim. It is better than most get, but to suggest fish for it that are still to big when there are other fish that would work much better (barbs for example) isnt' quite right.

^_^
[hr width='40%']"There’s an emptiness inside her. And she’d do anything to fill it in.
And though it’s red blood bleeding from her now. It's more like cold blue ice in her heart.
She feels like kicking out all the windows. And setting fire to this life."

I disagree with keeping goldfish in bowls. I would never keep a goldfish in a 40 gallon tank (which is considered by many as the "humane" minimum for a goldfish), or any tank for that matter. But I don't think that giving a couple of goldfish 400 gallons doesn't give them room to move and merely keep them alive.

I'm curious -- what do you think is the minimum humane size for a goldfish?

Last edited by untitled at 23-Feb-2005 13:47

are pond fish the same as cold water fish, or can only certain fish live in ponds?

I agree that you could keep a couple of common goldfish in a pond this size. I have done so successfully for a number of years.

I have experienced that the fish do not tend to grow as fast due to not feeding them during the winter months as their metabolism rates are much, much slower.

Another thing to beware of is the loss to predators. Unless you have a covering over the pond you may lose your fish this way. We are constantly on the lookout for racoons and or blue heron which in the spring target the local ponds for an easy meal because of the local rivers being very high due to winter runoff.

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with most answers. I think that a pond the size you mentioned could house two or three goldfish without you feeling guilty. I know the profiles here say that goldfish can reach 60cm, but this is exceptionally large goldfish and most will not exceed the size of 30 or so cm.

Another thing, temperatures in Sydney can become pretty cold in the winter, perhaps not freezing cold, but certainly too cold for barbs to survive.

One thing to think of when buliding a pond is that the depth is an important factor, especially with outdoor ponds. In the winter when temperature falls, it is warmer for the fish where it's deeper, so a depth of at least 70cm is needed.

Thanx babelfish

You'd probably do fine with some of the more hardy fish like barbs, or white clouds. A mass of water that large in size won't shift in temperature that much on a daily basis.
I wouldnt put common goldfish in that size simply because of how little swimming room there is. Depending on the temps a few fancy would do okay.

^_^

[hr width='40%']"Somewhere beyond happiness and sadness
I need to calculate,what creates my own madness...
and I am waiting for disaster"

there have been quite a few temp drops (& rises)

I dont know if this is normal but there seems 2 be many

temp drops (& rises)

I moved to sydney just reasently

Last edited by dude_dude at 20-Feb-2005 03:24