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Wild goldies usually reach around 16", tops. They are quite active, and, as few people realize, quite social. This all adds up to one hell of a large tank.

"Why SHOULD she reach her 'full potentiel'?"

Because shes a growing animal and doesnt deserve to have her inner organs grow while her skeleton stops. It is disgusting. Could you imagine your muscles and inner organs growing to adult size while your bones are that of a child?

"What if she doesn't want to?"

Did your goldfish really pop out of its tank and say "Hey, Kelly i really, really want to swim in this fish bowl* so my skeleton stops growing...who wants to develop normally anyway"

"And why do you care, if you love fishing? Shoulden't you be more worried about killing more innocent fish than worried about how I raise my goldfish? "

The fact that he fishes doesnt make you anyless wrong.


"I'm sorry but I totally agree with Kelly here. That picture is really digusting. Why would post that on a site like this? That makes no sense."

Actually he warned that the pic could make people squemish beforehand. I didnt think the pic was overly grotesque. And it was a good example of what a common goldfish should look like when cared for properly....and not caught on a fishing hook.

"Also you are talking about fish living to their potential and getting to the size they should...why? So people can go slaughter them. Yuck"

No, so they can live a healthy life in their tank. The truth is carp(common goldfish) were introduced into my local waterways and are doing a lot of damage to the ecosystem. Native animals are suffering, b/c some idiots couldnt care for their goldies and dumped them]:| So fishing becomes important in saving the local ecosystem.

Kelly, you are being completely illogical. This fish is a pond fish, just because it has been eating for a few months means nothing. My friend kept 2 goldies in a one gallon, algae covered bowl and they made it two years. They gasped at the surface constantly and never made it over and inch. So your few months of experience with this particular fish is negligible at this point in time.


Last edited by katieb at 18-Aug-2005 13:11

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

oi!!!!!



TO SMALL!!!!!


Angel Eel

"Why SHOULD she reach her 'full potentiel'? What if she doesn't want to? And why do you care, if you love fishing? Shoulden't you be more worried about killing more innocent fish than worried about how I raise my goldfish? "

That is, by far, one of the most ridiculous arguments raised thus far. I’m sure, at some point or another in your life, you’ve eaten some sort of meat. That is the slaughter of another innocent animal, and thusly, you do not have the means to refer to anyone else as a killer of innocent animals. Besides, regardless of your intentions to admit this, allowing a fungal infection to overtake your fish is also killing it, whether the intention was present or not. You know quite well that Books is not going to be coming to your house and killing the fish—you are just attempting to alter the conversation so as to not have to answer the question presented while still impressing the feeling of discontent, which I do not appreciate, though it was not directed towards me. You also know full well that the man in the picture is not him, either. Distorting Nick’s words by referring to a picture and going offhand to a topic that has NOTHING to do with goldfish only makes said argument look ludicrous. Back on topic: Why should you allow your goldfish to reach an ample size? Hmm, let me think:
They will live a long, fruitful, healthy life
Your fish will not suffer premature organ dysfunction
You have the joy of witnessing the behavior of an adult fish in a close to natural environment
You will be satisfied knowing you have given your fish accommodations that suit it
P.S.: Dubbing someone as a bloodlusting fish killer while housing a goldfish in a ten gallon for the duration of it’s life reeks of great irony.


”I'm sorry but I totally agree with Kelly here. That picture is really digusting. Why would post that on a site like this? That makes no sense. There are about a million pictures you could have chosen to make the point about fish size. I have to agree with this girl. Maybe you should be more worried about poor fish being slaughtered and strung up with blood pouring from their guts so people can get a good laugh at it than this girl and her one goldfish. Also you are talking about fish living to their potential and getting to the size they should...why? So people can go slaughter them. Yuck”

It makes perfect sense. Obviously he was attempting to find the largest possible picture of a goldfish available, thus expressing his point. Your argument in regards to slaughtering fish is TOTALLY illogical, as it has NO bearing on the pivot of discussion. Tell me, when your fish cease growing, does a fishmonger come to your home, scoop up your livestock, and butcher it? I think not. So what does this have to do with the topic on hand?

Books: are you sure that’s a goldfish? The signature rotundity of large cases is not present: it looks to me more like some species of carp (well, barring goldfish ).



Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 18-Aug-2005 13:59

Okay well I was the one who posted about the grotesque picture. I don't care what you think about it. It is digusting. And what kind of a stupid argument is that it is a good picture of the potential growth of a goldfish that isn't impaled on a spike??? That is most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I stand by my assertion that a more appropriate picture could have been found to make the point. And the argument if you don't like it don't look doesn't wash with me...the point is that picture is offensive to people who don't agree with fishing and slaughtering of animals. I am not saying that that photo shouldn't be posted on a fishing site (which is where it clearly came from) I'm saying its not appropriate for this site. A slaughtered fish on a metal stick with blood pouring out of its guts is not a good way to make a point about proper care of fish. It defeats the argument of saying you should take good care of your goldfish. Like I said, why? so people can torture it by impaling it??

While I do find that, for the moment putting myself in Kelly's shoes, some of the replies may have seemed condescending or aggressive, it is still obvious that the first mention of the problem with Kelly's advice was meant merely to inform. The comments on the picture linked by Books' are completely unnecessary. Life Noodles is correct: fishing is not killing YOUR fish.


Bingy: I'm sorry your thread had to turn into a war zone; you happened to hit upon a controversial topic. Please understand from all this that though there is a lot of bad info about goldfish out there, it has been proven that the bigger the space the better. You may well not want a goldfish after all this, but if you still do, consider a backyard pond.

Kelly: because your choice to keep this fish in a ten gallon was based upon disinformation from those websites, I cannot blame you for it. But to not admit error IS wrong. Concede this argument; it makes no more sense for you to stand your ground than a person keeping a small oscar in a ten gallon. The facts are against you. You are obviously concerned with the health of your fish, because you do not want it to be returned to the squalid conditions of the LFS at which you purchased it. But please, consider other options than continuing to keep the fish when you cannot provide for a full and healthy life. Look up a Pond and Garden society in your area, and attempt to find a place for your fish. Even if you refuse to take the high ground and act in the best interest of this fish, please, please do not support the purchase of gold fish any longer. Stop the disinformation that led you into this situation! Next time you are in a LFS, inform that mother or father with a begging child that an aquarium is a responsibility, and that a goldfish will cost them nothing but money from their pockets and sorrow from their child at the loss of his or her pet. Point out hardy beginners fish which will please the child!

If you cannot make up for your past mistakes, then at least help yourself and others not to make those mistakes again in the future.






Last edited by bill the cat at 18-Aug-2005 13:56

“Okay well I was the one who posted about the grotesque picture. I don't care what you think about it. It is digusting. And what kind of a stupid argument is that it is a good picture of the potential growth of a goldfish that isn't impaled on a spike???”

I courteously advise you NOT to call me or my views stupid before examining the situation . Are you a vegetarian? If not, then you are inadvertently condoning such actions anyways, as you are supplying the demand for the slaughter of innocent animals. Therefore, I, being a now almost strict vegetarian (save special occasions and holidays), am allowed to assert the hypocrisy of your statement, unless, of course, you are indeed an ex-carnivore. Furthermore, the violence (disgusting? Think about that the next time you’re eating a fillet, opening a can of tuna, whatnot)has nothing to do with the intended meaning of the picture; the SIZE of the fish.

“That is most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. I stand by my assertion that a more appropriate picture could have been found to make the point.”

Well, your opinions do lie on the vast minority, so what can I say? I believe I provided a PLETHORA of non impaled on a stick goldfish pictures, thank you every much.

“And the argument if you don't like it don't look doesn't wash with me...the point is that picture is offensive to people who don't agree with fishing and slaughtering of animals. I am not saying that that photo shouldn't be posted on a fishing site (which is where it clearly came from) I'm saying its not appropriate for this site. A slaughtered fish on a metal stick with blood pouring out of its guts is not a good way to make a point about proper care of fish. It defeats the argument of saying you should take good care of your goldfish. Like I said, why? so people can torture it by impaling it??”

It defeats nothing. The topic was about the size of the goldfish, and about it’s humane treatment in an aquarium setting. This picture addressed the former, and was only intended to. You know full well that no one is going to “torture” his or her fish as a hobbyist, do you not? Then why post such a statement? Besides, if you’ve read any literature on the workings of slaughterhouses, you’ll see that such a death is nowhere near as horrific as you believe.


Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 18-Aug-2005 13:54

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 18-Aug-2005 13:57

That is my point exactly that picture was NOT relevant to the point at hand. Another picture could have been used and it would have been a lot more effective in persuading people to take good care of their fish. HOw is showing a DEAD TORTURED fish supposed to promote ethical, humane and healthy care of fish??? HUH? And please don't try to "Educate" me on the virtues of fishing. I'm not an idiot and I don't know to be patronized. I have every right to object to that picture. Just because your opinion differs from mine doesn't mean I don't have the right to express it.

Actually I am a vegan. Not that it is any of your business. You post is very rude. And I didn't call your views stupid. I wasn't even posting to you.

Last edited by mesonic at 18-Aug-2005 13:57

Okay, we've spoon-fed the information here. If Kelly wants to keep fish her own way, none of us are going to stop her. I think that this thread should return to answering the original question or be closed, as we are not getting anywhere. Kelly's opinion is that goldfish are fine in ten gallon tanks, and we must respect that.

For the record, I did not edit in the warning after the picture had been viewed. It was edited one minute after I posted, before any response had been made. Also, warning was in there even before the edit.

I'm not exactly sure what the fish in the picture is either; the site said it was a goldy, so I called it a goldy.

Last edited by sirbooks at 18-Aug-2005 14:04

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

By the way I am vegan. Not that you care, because of you everyone on fishprofiles.com probably hates me

Hate someone, no not likely...takes a lot more than that to get me to hate someone.

Dislike that someone refuses to understand that current actions, while they may have been done in ignorance, are harming a living creature, that is for sure. None of my comments were in anyway meant as an attack, simply as information that some people may not have understood. I know that when I rescued my first three goldfish out of a bowl on my bosses table I didnt fully understand their needs and requirements. After some research and being told the cold hard facts of goldfish by people here (thank you koi keeper !) I knew enough that keeping a goldfish in a 20 was bad and got them a pond where they belong instead.

^_^[font color="#999999][hr width='40%']"...whether you harm man or animal: there is no difference. Nay, rather, cruelty to the animal is more painful..." " ][hr width='40%']"...whether you harm man or animal: there is no difference. Nay, rather, cruelty to the animal is more painful..."

you are forgetting that hate is a VERY VERY strong word, and besides, i'm sure that everybody here will see that keeping your goldfish in the 10g is your desicion, and i respect that, and i should hope others will follow me.

even though it is not my place to do so, i am apologising on behalf on everyone, all those who made 'aggressive remarks', we are sorry.

if it makes you feel better, i don't hate you

smilingpiranha

Before, I get back to the topic onhand, I’d like to add one more thing;

“Okay well I was the one who posted about the grotesque picture. I don't care what you think about it. It is digusting. And what kind of a stupid argument is that it is a good picture of the potential growth of a goldfish that isn't impaled on a spike???”

If you will recall, my argument WAS about the potential growth of the fish, and how it related to the picture. So therefore, it WAS addressed to me, regardless of intention. It does help any that the post was directly after mine.

Furthermore, I do note “hate” anyone who disagrees with me; everyone is entitled to examine an incident as they see fit. If I disagree, I will argue against it, which is not to say it is wrong; rather, that I believe it to be wrong. It’s her opinion, and her tank. As stated, all the facts have been presented, and she wants to take them, it’s her benefit, and if not, her loss.

Okay, now, before departing, a bit of goldfish morphology, if you will.

Goldfish are a species of small sized carp, widespread throughout western Asia, primarily in warmer waters (65-75 ish). Wild specimens grow to about 16”, give or take a few inches. They are social fish and prefer others of their own kind, though too close of contact and bullying may result. This being said, an ideal setup would be somewhat larger than for, say, an oscar, as these are robust cyprinids. A large tank with current and impressive filtration is required, or better yet, a pond. Please consider that the fish can reach impressive lengths, and need to be kept in large tanks in order to lead a fulfilling lifestyle. The rest is up to you; I’m off.


Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 18-Aug-2005 20:16

I am not harming a living creature, babelfish. You don't understand.

Why can't you give it a rest, Cup_of_Lifenoodles, I really don't care!! I know what I'm doing, my goldfish is great.

Last edited by Kelly at 18-Aug-2005 14:35

"I am not harming a living creature, babelfish. You don't understand. "

You may not be directly harming the fish but in a year or 2, if you don't upgrade to a 55 gallon tank or larger, the conditions you are keeping the fish in will harm it.


"Why can't you give it a rest, Cup_of_Lifenoodles, I really don't care!! I know what I'm doing, my goldfish is great."

Cup_of_Lifenoodles has given you A LOT of information and has put a lot of work into trying to get through to you that a 10 gallon is not ok to keep a goldfish in. IMO you arenot in a position to insult him.

We have given you all the information you could have ever wanted that has made it obvious the proper conditions for a goldfish. Whether you choose to use this information or to continue and try and prove it wrong is not our decision.

*sigh* maybe i just wont reply anymore if you guys don't see, i cant help you

dude, you've done well to stick to your guns, but your guns are your opinions, which means that keeping the gf in that 10g is your opinion, it was your descision, so everybody should respect that, like they would respect peoples opinions on other tender subjects, like over here in the UK hunting, or nearly everywhere in the world, the war on Iraq

I think the Bingys original question has been answered. Many of the posters hear have provided clear evidence that a goldfish is not a good choice unless you have a very large tank to house it in. Personally if i am going to buy a goldfish i would like to see it grow the way it is supposed to, not the way i want it to.

Kelly, I know what a vegetarian is, though im not sure how a vegan is different. Anyway, do you grow and pick your own food? If you dont, you too are contributing to the slaughter of millions of animals killed by wheat and soy bean combines during harvesting season. Native wildlife such as rabbits, snakes, possums, skunks, squirrels are killed and left to rot in the field because of farming machinery.

[font color="#008000"]EDIT: Sorry, though you did give a warning, that site is way too profane.[/font]


Last edited by katieb at 18-Aug-2005 15:09

Last edited by sirbooks at 18-Aug-2005 15:15

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

group hugg everybody:%)we need a good polka tune/:'

That's all, folks. This thread is going nowhere fast.

Last edited by sirbooks at 18-Aug-2005 15:20

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

How is it fine, then? What makes it okay for your goldfish?

A Google search turned up this: http://www.rodnreel.com/UploadPics/Modified/2005/P0052482.jpg
The site claims that this is a goldfish. Pretty big, huh? (If you don't like blood, don't click the link.)
This is why I don't think a goldfish should live in a ten gallon tank, because fish should get to live to their potential size.

Last edited by sirbooks at 18-Aug-2005 11:24

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

"About that pic you posted, what the heck are you doing holding a fish out of water like that? Is that fish alive? It damages their gills to be handled by human hands and suffocates them to be out of water!"

Well being in a 10 gallon stops their skeleton from growing and kills them slowly. I think you should be more worried about your goldie then that one. IIRC "Bruce" is kept in a pond....you know like carp should.

I willl tell you how long my goldfish lives, if you are still on these forums. When it dies I will tell you, ok? And when it suddenly grows to the size of a shark I will tell you And my goldfish IS healthy, no matter how much you think you know about MY fish that you have never even seen. The fish DOES eat, and looks every bit like a healthy fish, I have kept her in a 10 gallon for a few months now and she has ALWAYS been healty. And she swims normal, there is nothing wrong with her whatsoever.

A few months is nothing for a fish that lives as long as 20 years. Chances are stunting wont happen with a few months. However if your fish is in there for its whole life, dont expect it to grow normally. Also, stunting will have a negetive impact on the immune system, so your goldies who died of a sickness were most likely more susceptible due to improper housing.

"deschazkody, I agree with you, but after I gave my reply to this persons thread everyone aparently choose to ignore the person who posted this thread and attack me instead."

No one attacked you until you got belligerent

"And BESIDES I don't have a pond and if I give her to a pet store she they will probably stuff in with all the other goldfish in those 'feeder' tanks much like the one I rescued her from."

Comets are pond fish. Period. Shes better off being fed to an oscar than being kept in a 10 gallon. A quick death is better than a slow one.


Id like to know what you thought of "Bruce" the year-old oranda. Im sure you wouldnt stuff him in your tank, why would you put a comet in there?


Since you are so sure of your goldfish husbandry techniques, can you please explain how you came to the conclusion that putting a fish with the potential to be 2ft long in a 20in long tank would work well?



Last edited by katieb at 17-Aug-2005 21:32

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

"Ok, first of all I did NOT come to this thread for advice. I didn't even post it. And you come here to tell me I need 55 gallons for every fish"

Yes, you did. You told the topic poster a ten gallon tank is sufficient for housing the aforementioned goldfish, which is, of course, untrue.


"And you all say it will stun their growth and cause them pain, but thats not true. I have kept goldfish in a 10g tank before a long time ago, and the only reason they died was because some kind of fungas disease spread through the tank. (i did not know a lot about fish back then)"

It is true. How large was the goldfish when it died? How old was it? A healthy goldfish is capable of goring several inches a year until it hits sexual maturity, whereby growth decreases slightly. I am willing to bet your fish was not over 6", unless you had purchased the fish at around that size. Many aquarists far more knowledgable than you or I have all witnessed stunting in action, and thusly it is a commonly accepted fact in today's hobby. Besides, how can you be sure it is not in pain? Are you a goldfish? I'd also be willing to bet that the fungal infection was triggered by poor water quality, as most infections of that nature are--spurred forth by the massive amounts of respiratory (well, sort of) waste produced by robust cyprinids such as goldfish.


"For a 10g tank, go for a pair of Gold Barbs. I know 10g isnt really suited for them either, But they can live much more happily in a 10g and are a nice shiny golden color as well."
Well, thanks for the piece of advice even though I did not ask for it."

Thank you for being unequivocably rude to someone who was trying to help.


"About that pic you posted, what the heck are you doing holding a fish out of water like that? Is that fish alive? It damages their gills to be handled by human hands and suffocates them to be out of water!"

Gills are protected by the operculum. There is no reason to asume that the gills are harmed in any way; in fact, such handling is the best and least stressful way by which one can restrain a fish out of water. Furthermore, the above fish is still (or so I've heard) alive and well, and as one can see from the photo, VERY healthy. We are all quite intelligent enough to understand that fish cannot breathe out of water, but what other way can you obtain a side shot of a pond dwelling fish?


"I willl tell you how long my goldfish lives, if you are still on these forums. When it dies I will tell you, ok? And when it suddenly grows to the size of a shark I will tell you And my goldfish IS healthy, no matter how much you think you know about MY fish that you have never even seen. The fish DOES eat, and looks every bit like a healthy fish, I have kept her in a 10 gallon for a few months now and she has ALWAYS been healty. And she swims normal, there is nothing wrong with her whatsoever."

I don't need to see your fish. The fact that it's in a ten gallon tank somewhat speaks for itself. Think about it
the fish grows to be at least a foot and a hlaf in length, correct? Correct. There is no way that fish can possibly grow that large in a 10G. Many years of aquarist experience from multiple indivduals as well as microbiological fact dictates that some areas of the fish MUST grow throughout the course of its life, thusly deforming the fish. It will, and I guarentee you, not live over ten years.


"deschazkody, I agree with you, but after I gave my reply to this persons thread everyone aparently choose to ignore the person who posted this thread and attack me instead."

No one is attacking you, at least by my definition of the word. If by "attacking" you mean attempting to convey the fact that a ten gallon is far too small for a 16 inch fish, then yes, we are.


"And BESIDES I don't have a pond and if I give her to a pet store she they will probably stuff in with all the other goldfish in those 'feeder' tanks much like the one I rescued her from."

No offense, but to be perfectly honest, the fish would probably be better off as a meal for a hungry oscar than to be packed in a tank far too small for the extent of it's remaining life.

Actually my goldfish is growing, he doesn't look dead to me.

"I think you should be more worried about your goldie then that one." Says someone who is trying to tell me to feed my goldfish to a hungry oscar.

"A few months is nothing for a fish that lives as long as 20 years. Chances are stunting wont happen with a few months. However if your fish is in there for its whole life, dont expect it to grow normally. Also, stunting will have a negetive impact on the immune system, so your goldies who died of a sickness were most likely more susceptible due to improper housing."
So you are predicting my fish will die soon? I doubt it. We will see who is right, wont we?

"No one attacked you until you got belligerent"
All I said was you can keep a small goldfish in a 10g tank and people threw rude replys at me, everyone telling me that thats wrong and I should put her in a pond or give her to a LFS or feed her to a hungry oscar.

"Id like to know what you thought of "Bruce" the year-old oranda. Im sure you wouldnt stuff him in your tank, why would you put a comet in there?"

Bruce is a pretty oranda. And no, why would I stuff sich a huge fish in a 10g tank? My comet is about the size of a betta.

"Since you are so sure of your goldfish husbandry techniques, can you please explain how you came to the conclusion that putting a fish with the potential to be 2ft long in a 20in long tank would work well?"

Because I have done it before, and I know more about my fish than you do. And he is small, not 2f long!

"Yes, you did. You told the topic poster a ten gallon tank is sufficient for housing the aforementioned goldfish, which is, of course, untrue."

Telling someone that they can keep a small fish a 10g tank is not asking for advice. And it is true.

The goldfish I had before, I don't know how old they were and I don't remember how big they were, but they were not over 6", if they were I woulden't keep them in a 10gt.

"Besides, how can you be sure it is not in pain? Are you a goldfish?"

I have learned how to tell what a healthy fish looks like. And I'm not a goldfish, if I was it would be hard for me to type. And it might not have been a fungal infection. Even in healthy tanks sickness can sometimes happen. You, and every other fish keeper, should know that.

"Thank you for being unequivocably rude to someone who was trying to help."

Who is being rude here? I told him thanks for suggesting it but I'm fine with my goldfish.

"Gills are protected by the operculum."

So its ok to keep fish out of water?

"I don't need to see your fish. The fact that it's in a ten gallon tank somewhat speaks for itself. Think about it
the fish grows to be at least a foot and a hlaf in length, correct? Correct. There is no way that fish can possibly grow that large in a 10G. Many years of aquarist experience from multiple indivduals as well as microbiological fact dictates that some areas of the fish MUST grow throughout the course of its life, thusly deforming the fish. It will, and I guarentee you, not live over ten years."

You need to see my fish. Good. Then don't talk about what you don't know. My goldfish has lots of room, how many times should I tell you people?

"No one is attacking you, at least by my definition of the word. If by "attacking" you mean attempting to convey the fact that a ten gallon is far too small for a 16 inch fish, then yes, we are."

My fish is not 16 inches! Is a 10g tank too small for a 2 inch fish? No.

"No offense, but to be perfectly honest, the fish would probably be better off as a meal for a hungry oscar than to be packed in a tank far too small for the extent of it's remaining life."

Packed in a tank? No I told you she has lots of room and I am not going to feed her to a big hungry fish, thank you.

Ok kelly, you keep saying that the fish is fine in the tank its size, however, you have only had it for a few months. Please explain to us what will happen to the fish when it is 24 inches long and in a 20 inch tank?

And when people say its better off to feed your fish to an oscar they mean a quick death is a better death than the slow painful death where the fish's internal organs grow unnaturally large for its body and the fish dies.

about the other goldfish that died from fungus...
goldfish produce an excessive amount of waste. In a small tank with that much waste water quality will quickly detiriorate which probably was the cause of the fungus.

I'm sorry but if you dont want to hear the answer come onto a fish website and ask the question "What the smallest tank a common goldfish could live in?"

Now please, if you dont have a pond or a large enough tank return the goldfish to a petstore and get something else. There are plenty of fish that are well suited to a 10 gallon.

"So you are predicting my fish will die soon? I doubt it. We will see who is right, wont we?"

I am predicting that your fish will not live as long as it could in a proper environment. And you know as well as I that I will never know when your fish will die, so the proceeding comment is quite unnecessary.


"All I said was you can keep a small goldfish in a 10g tank and people threw rude replys at me, everyone telling me that thats wrong and I should put her in a pond or give her to a LFS or feed her to a hungry oscar."

I don't recall in any previous posts ever being rude, nor did you ever state that the goldfish were required to be small. Thus, we can assume that you have plans to forever house your pets in the given ten gallon of discussion. I do, however, bear in mind that we provided you will highly constructive criticism presented in a consequently constructive way. In fact, most of the posters were flat out nice.


"Bruce is a pretty oranda. And no, why would I stuff sich a huge fish in a 10g tank? My comet is about the size of a betta."

...and it will stay that way (if only a few inches larger), which is why we--or rather I, as I cannot speak for the other posters, cannot stress to you enough that your fish does not belong in a ten.


"Because I have done it before, and I know more about my fish than you do. And he is small, not 2f long!"

Oh, so you HAVE raised goldfish in a ten gallon tank that grew to full size and lived a full 30 years?


"Telling someone that they can keep a small fish a 10g tank is not asking for advice. And it is true."

You, and I quote you on this, said ; "Ok, first of all I did NOT come to this thread for advice. I didn't even post it.". The “it”, by all grammatical rules of parallelism, does point to the subject as “advice”, which is carried over form the previous sentence. Thus, standing alone, it reads; “I didn’t even post advice”---which you did. This is off topic, so I’ll get back to goldfish henceforth.


"The goldfish I had before, I don't know how old they were and I don't remember how big they were, but they were not over 6", if they were I woulden't keep them in a 10gt."

Don’t you see? Your fish never grow beyond 6” because you are inhibiting their growth!

"I have learned how to tell what a healthy fish looks like. And I'm not a goldfish, if I was it would be hard for me to type. And it might not have been a fungal infection. Even in healthy tanks sickness can sometimes happen. You, and every other fish keeper, should know that."

You JUST said it was a fungal infection. Now you're rebuking your words? I don't quite follow. Furthermore, my point was, and I'm sure you knew this but were purposely avoiding the question, that YOU don't very well know if your fish feels pain or not. Also, if it were a healthy tank, there would be no sickness; all known fungal infections are resultant from high stress and/or unsavory water conditions, as they are generally already present in most aquariums, waiting for the immune system to buckle under stress. Healthy fish in a healthy environment simply do not come down with an infection; fungal or otherwise. Please do not question my standing as a hobbyist while you continue to recommend housing goldfish in 10 gallon tanks for the entirety of their lives.


“Who is being rude here? I told him thanks for suggesting it but I'm fine with my goldfish.”

I’m sure you’ll deny this, but I’m fairly sure you knew at the time of your post that the remark comes across as cynical and snide in context. Again, off topic, so I’ll get back to goldfish.

"So its ok to keep fish out of water?"

Please don't attempt to play word games with me; what I recall you saying is that handling a fish with human hands damages it's gills (which is far from true, as the mentioned gill plating protects the delicate rakers). Context and proper English proves me correct. And, as you recall, said oranda is still quite healthy--while your goldfish are either stunted and/or dead as a result of fungal/bacterial infection. Thusly, what right do you have to criticize an obviously more than proficient fishkeeper?

“You need to see my fish. Good. Then don't talk about what you don't know. My goldfish has lots of room, how many times should I tell you people?”

The mere mention that you'd recommend a ten gallon tank conveys the fact that I don’t need to prove to you that I do know EXACTLY what I’m talking about. We are aware that he has lots of room, however, the fish WILL suffer physiological damage and premature death due to your actions.

"My fish is not 16 inches! Is a 10g tank too small for a 2 inch fish? No."

It won't REACH 16 inches. That is EXACTLY what I’m trying to tell you. In fact, it won't even reach half that, precisely because you've limited it's growth.

I am, from this post on, going to cease playing the quote game with you. It’s your fish and your tank, but I should let you know that your fish WILL die as the successive result of stunting (no, it's organs won't explode, as cell density prevents this from occuring, but many of the fish's organs will contort due to neccesary development in those regions, and furthermore, lose function and form sooner than a healthy indivdual).

Sorry, I have to agree with Cup here.
Goldfish dont belong in a 10g tank.
The fact that your fish is several months old
and is still so small is proof of stunting.
Bruce the Oranda in the picture I posted (not my fish),
grew to that size in 1 year. Imagine that after several months he must have been tipping 6-9 inches.
I have seen goldfish grow in the proper environment,
by 1 year of age said fish should be a minimum of 6 inches, and if kept in a pond will probably be closer to a foot.
We base our estimates of what can fit in a 10g tank on Adult Size of the Fish. Not what size it is when you buy it, or what size it is as 3 months of age.
We base it on the total maximum size the fish in question WILL BE when it has matured in an environment conducive to proper growth and health.
Therefore yes, a Guppy fits in a 10g tank, so does a Betta. They are 2 inch fish at maturity (when finished growing), they are not 2 inches at only several months of age destined to be a whopping 20 inch fish.
You need to base your decision not how big the fish is now, but on how big the fish WILL BE if you give it a chance to live its life out and grow normally.
If I kept you as a child in a small box, you probably wouldnt be much bigger than 3 feet either, but that didnt happen to you did it?



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While I'm not offering any comment on tank size for goldfish or saying who is right or wrong...I will say that I do think some people were rather condescending to this person. I think that is why she got upset. She is probably less upset at the advice being given than the tone it was given in. I find this forum is usually very very friendly and I have recieved some very helpful advice which I have always taken and applied. HOwever, I will say that sometimes people are a little aggressive in their "advice giving". No one want so to be made to feel like an idiot or a "fish killer". I know that people are very passionate about their fish and want to make sure that all fish are getting the optimum treatment possible but sometimes the posts come accross a bit aggressively and it puts people on the defensive. Just a little something in the interest of peace!!

"Please explain to us what will happen to the fish when it is 24 inches long and in a 20 inch tank?"

I thought you guys said that they wont grow over 6 inches in a 10 g tank??

"Now please, if you dont have a pond or a large enough tank return the goldfish to a petstore and get something else. There are plenty of fish that are well suited to a 10 gallon."

Now, if I actually give my goldfish to the pet store, what do you honestly think they will do with her? The ONLY tanks with common goldfish I have ever seen in any store are crowded, crowded, and the fish are sick and suffocating and dieing. Do you really think my goldfish would be better off there?

"I'm sorry but if you dont want to hear the answer come onto a fish website and ask the question "What the smallest tank a common goldfish could live in?"

The question was just posted on this thread.

You guys are telling me that my fish won't live in a 10g tank when at right this very moment she IS.








And now....what would you honestly have me do?????????????????????????????????????????????????

What the other folks are saying is that your fish will not live out its full lifespan in that tank. Goldfish have the potential to get very large, and your goldfish will not be able to reach its potential in a ten gallon tank. It would die first.
While it may not be feasible for you to dig a pond or buy a very large tank, the others are trying to make you understand that it is not okay for a goldfish to be kept in a ten gallon. No one who knows about stunting and the true size of goldfish can honestly say that a fish tank like that will hold a goldfish for more than a short time. If you really want to give your goldie a good home, your best bet is a pond. Do you know anyone who has a pond, or is there a pond society or club in your area? Perhaps someone would take your goldfish for you.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Now I'm being told to give my goldfish to someone else. Great. Either that or dig a hole in the backyard as a pond for her where she will be exposed to all kinds of weather extremes.

And no, I don't know anyone with a pond! And my parents wouldent let get anything bigger than a 55g tank! PLUS a 10g tank is JUST FINE.

Last edited by Kelly at 18-Aug-2005 11:14

Last edited by Kelly at 18-Aug-2005 11:15

Your fish is dying, whether you chose to accept that or not. The fish will undergo a ruinous distortion of it’s body, which will compromise it’s health. This is a fact which is supported by years of hobbyist experience AND scientific fact. As it is your tank and your fish, there is no way I can realistically stop you, but let it be known to you that to continue to house your fish in a ten gallon tank will have a direct influence upon it’s health and lifespan. Attempting to argue with that is to question the doctrine of many years of the hobby. Personally, I do not believe you are yet in such a position to do that.

Furthermore, I do not believe that one needs to have HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH HTH in one’s signature to come across as helpful. Nothing posted here, from what I can tell, is the least bit condescending. Facts are presented in a straightforward manner---and they are statements of fact, not arrogance. There is no way for one to sugarcoat such a message—would you rather I speak in such a tone?; “ur lil goldie’ll b sad if ya makem stay n ur 10 gal. He’ll go 2 da big fish bowl in da skI lol. But datz OK, s’long as ur happE wit ur sishies!!” I don’t think it helps the situation much.


Here are the first two sites relevant to stunting that popped in a quick google search. I believe these are better indicators of what should or should not be done in regards to fishkeeping:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=4&url=http%3A//kingsoftheaquarium.com/faq.htm&ei=DsgEQ6zlCqiEYevT5IcK
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A//www.bestfish.com/tips/020598.html&ei=DsgEQ6zlCqiEYevT5IcK

For size reference, here are some images of wild type goldies:
[link=http://www.ifc.tas.gov.au/fact_sheets/Wild%20goldfish.jpg ]http://www.ifc.tas.gov.au/fact_sheets/Wild%20goldfish.jpg [/link]
[link=http://www.fishing.co.uk/data/articlez/br0202hottips-3-tb.jpg ]http://www.fishing.co.uk/data/articlez/br0202hottips-3-tb.jpg [/link]
[link=http://www.carphunters.com/Foto-arkiv/Fish/Carassius_auratus.htm ]http://www.carphunters.com/Foto-arkiv/Fish/Carassius_auratus.htm [/link]
[link=http://www.seafishingonline.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10029/Carp1.jpg ]http://www.seafishingonline.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10029/Carp1.jpg [/link]
[link=http://www.seafishingonline.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10029/Carp3.jpg ]http://www.seafishingonline.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10029/Carp3.jpg [/link]

And comet complexes:
[link=http://www.kevinwakeman.com/fpics/jun702goldy.jpg ]http://www.kevinwakeman.com/fpics/jun702goldy.jpg [/link]
[link=http://www.goldfishparadise.com/album/album/gotm/comet8.jpg ]http://www.goldfishparadise.com/album/album/gotm/comet8.jpg [/link]
[link=http://www.cconline.org.za/images/pond44.jpg ]http://www.cconline.org.za/images/pond44.jpg [/link]
[link=http://www.pondliner.com/images/07GFCometLg.jpg ]http://www.pondliner.com/images/07GFCometLg.jpg [/link]



Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 18-Aug-2005 13:11

How is it fine? Because my goldfish is not sick and dieing.

What does that cruel pic have to do with my goldfish? Do you support fishing or something?

Look at these sites I found on the web.
http://honors.montana.edu/~weif/firsttank/goldfish.phtml
http://www.finetuning.com/articles/1780-goldfish--beyond-the-bowl.html
"Please, for the health of your new friend, invest a little extra money and purchase, at a minimum, a 10 gallon tank for him or her."
"Keep your goldfish in a tank of at least 10 gallons, and make sure that a minimum of 8 gallons of your tank space is dedicated to each goldfish (a 10 gallon tank is really only suitable for one goldfish). This will provide sufficient space for your goldfish, so he can remain healthy, and this will allow the tank to help you keep healthy fish."

Every book that I have read says you can keep a goldfish in a 10g tank. And allthe tank sets I have seen say that too.

Look at the name and nature of each of your websites. Neither of them are fish related. This just gives credence to the fact that most non-aquarists and even a high percentage of so-called aquarists just don't know how large goldfish get. This is FishProfiles.com, a decidedly fish-oriented site. We have a lot of smart people here. I think that the folks who were trying to help you are included. They know that goldfish are big fish. You've now seen pictures that prove this.
I'm not being a smart-aleck, but do you think a goldfish can grow as big as it should in a twenty inch tank? Then, why do you insist that your goldfish are fine in there, when they clearly will not reach their full potential? Not reaching ones potential... Isn't that something most people dread? Teachers and parents hammer into their kids that you should strive to be your best, to reach your potential in adult life. Fish should get to reach their adult potential. They don't need to be punished with an early grave.

And yes, I am the epitome of evil because I'm not against fishing. That's beside the point.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Why SHOULD she reach her 'full potentiel'? What if she doesn't want to? And why do you care, if you love fishing? Shoulden't you be more worried about killing more innocent fish than worried about how I raise my goldfish?

I, Sirbrooks like you, must also be the epitome of evil, because i'm not against fishing either, i personally am all for it.

one question though Kelly, if your parents won't let you get anything more than a 55g, why don't you buy a 55g along with your 10g, move your goldie into a 55g, and have the 10g as a betta tank?

would that not be a sensible idea?

smilingpiranha

Last edited by smilingpiranha at 18-Aug-2005 12:43

I'm sorry but I totally agree with Kelly here. That picture is really digusting. Why would post that on a site like this? That makes no sense. There are about a million pictures you could have chosen to make the point about fish size. I have to agree with this girl. Maybe you should be more worried about poor fish being slaughtered and strung up with blood pouring from their guts so people can get a good laugh at it than this girl and her one goldfish.] Also you are talking about fish living to their potential and getting to the size they should...why? So people can go slaughter them. Yuck

Last edited by mesonic at 18-Aug-2005 12:44

smilingpiranha, I have a 55 gallon tank that has 2 guppies, 2 albino corys, and a snail and soon I'm going to get more tropical fish for it.