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I've been looking at a 180 - 300 gallon tank at the store and I've been putting together a stocking list. I haven't added numbers, not sure about that. What do you think I should add to this (agression alone, not counting tank size)

freshwater ray (they called it a teacup, but I'm gona find out more. I thinking it's a motro)
discus
angelfish
clown loaches
pearl gourami
rams
hatchet fish
black widows
black phantoms
harley rasboras


What do you guys think, stocking wise? Too much, too little? I'm shooting more for a variety of species than number of fish. I'd rather get another school of tetras than another discus or two.

What should I do ph wise, feeding wise, decorations, etc.?

Thanks alot
- Dj :88)

If by Harley Rasboras, you mean Harlequins, I'm not finding that they are aggressive in the least, and if they aren't the black phantom tetras may find them as a pleasure to do away with. If not and I'm mistaken please excuse me.

If it were me, I'd go with several different schools of Neon Tetras, Black Neons (those that resemble neons), Emperor Tetras, Harlequin Rasboras, Maybe some sort of Rainbowfish (I don't know anything about them, so I don't know) And with a tank that large you have got to go with several species of corries they would have so much fun in that tank And possibly a school of Clown Loaches as well

That or if you want some larger fish, I'd go with some Mbuna Cichlids Acei, Rusties, Electric Labs, yes, what a tank...

Or there is the possibility of Goldfish, it would be large enough

or of course you could put in 2 or 3 trios of some really nice guppies, and see how long till they overpopulate the tank

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

If you do rays then it would probably have to be species only. Also angels and discus can't be kept together.

A fully grown Motoro is too big for a 180 gallon, however if your talking about a Reticulata, the most common stingray I see around as well as the most common stingray that I see called a Teacup, then it might work better, as they don't get as large. On the other hand, finding fully grown Motoros is really quite rare, though the difficulty in taking care of stingrays may be a factor; most Motoros I have seen would be or are quite fine in a 180 gallon tank. A 300 gallon would be quite fine for a Motoro, especially with the right dimensions.

Of course, putting a large predatory fish into your tank, even a stingray, does limit the kinds of fish you can keep with it. I expect you're probably going to take it out of the picture. I'd worry about the rays taking down some of the smaller fish and eating them; it's definitely possible that they eat a few fish. Some people have thought that Discus and Rays would be perfect tankmates since they both require very clean water and therefore would go quite well with each other. It's been found Rays prefer the Discus with them more than the Discus preferred the Rays (in short, munch munch).

And to note, Rays don't have to be kept in species only tanks.

Last edited by Shinigami at 10-Apr-2005 22:39

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

I know that rays don't have to be kept in species only. I meant to say that it would be ideal.

ooh ooh , Get a Redtailed Black shark, Excellent fish (Not that I'm obsessed)

dont forget plant life. alot of the species you have listed require plant life to be happy and comfortable. plant life will also lessen the amount of nitrates in the tank.

i would look harder into species like dwarf cichlids and the life. they have a long list of very attractive and personable species. i would also think about some oddball fish that arnt to common just to keep the tank interesting. a tank of this size where you go for variety you want someonething different in it somewhere. doesnt have to be big or ugly just uncommon. think of all the times you have walked into the same fish store week ater week and started saying " nothing new just the same stuff". well that might happen with a 300g tank.

stay away from lake cichlids like mbuna, these guys are not meant for such community tanks. yellow labs, aceis, rusties are peacfull when compared to other mbuna not such things as neons.they will not hesitate to start thinning the heard to gain property.

Could you post a picture of a Reticulata? The one I saw was definitely not a rare fish. It was only $60 and in a 20 gallon tank. And, like the name said, it was the size of a teacup. I'm sure a larger or less common stingray like a motoro would fetch a bigger price. I'm not sure what the exact name on the tank was, but I'm going up there either Saturday or Sunday, so we'll see. I’ll even try to get a few pictures!

I also heard conflicting info on motoros. One site had a picture of one that was tan with brown spots. It said they had a diameter of 18 inches. That looks like what I saw in the store. The other site had a black and white ray and said that it could get up to 3 feet! Now that’s a big difference! Judging by what you said, the second site was right. So, I’m back to the drawing board.

However, if you say the other species is more common, I'm inclined to think that's what it is. So, for arguments sake, if I happen to get the small ray, could I keep it with discus and tetras? I was purposely looking for larger tetras, like black widows. I'll take the rasboras off the list and add congo tetras and diamond tetras. Both of these tetras are on the larger scale, if I'm not mistaken. I really don’t want an aggressive tank. I love arowanas and Oscars as much as the next guy, but this is going in my living room. I wanted something with more life. (no offense, but I find a small group of large fish tend to be less lively than a huge group of small fish)

I noticed that rays have very small mouths for their sizes, while other predatory fish like arowanas have enormous ones. I thought that that might make the ray more suitable for a community tank.

Also angels and discus can't be kept together.

Why? Is it because of that disease that angelfish have?

Here’s the updated list:
1 Reticulata ray
1 African butterfly fish
1 red-tail black shark
1-3 discus
3-4 clown loaches
1-3 pearl gourami(s)
4-6 rams
10-15 hatchet fish
10-30 black widows
10-30 black phantoms
10-30 diamond tetras
5-7 Congo tetras

thanks
- Dj:88)

Last edited by djtj at 11-Apr-2005 16:14

yes angels carry a parasite that does nothing to them but kill discus. the ray may eat the rams and clown loaches.

Could you post a picture of a Reticulata? The one I saw was definitely not a rare fish. It was only $60 and in a 20 gallon tank. And, like the name said, it was the size of a teacup. I'm sure a larger or less common stingray like a motoro would fetch a bigger price. I'm not sure what the exact name on the tank was, but I'm going up there either Saturday or Sunday, so we'll see. I’ll even try to get a few pictures!

I also heard conflicting info on motoros. One site had a picture of one that was tan with brown spots. It said they had a diameter of 18 inches. That looks like what I saw in the store. The other site had a black and white ray and said that it could get up to 3 feet! Now that’s a big difference! Judging by what you said, the second site was right. So, I’m back to the drawing board.

Your description matches that of a Reticulata; Retics do not have spots.



They look like that, although there is quite a wide variation of different Retic colorations. Also, not to rain on your parade, but I see them regularly at $30-40.

Also, the first site is wrong in saying that they get to 18" (although truthfully that is one of the max sizes you see in captivity anyway, 'cuz I haven't seen/heard of many larger Motoros), and the second one is wrong for calling a Leopoldi or a Henlei a Motoro. Motoros are the tan/brown with spots; Leopoldis and Henleis (and related) are black with white spots. They are awesome, hardier and larger than Motoros, but also many times more expensive because of their awesome looks.

Admittedly, a stingray is more adapted to consumption of benthic invertebrates, but it will eat a number a fish if it wants to if its able to manage swooping down on it.

Last edited by Shinigami at 11-Apr-2005 22:44[/font]

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Thanks for the pic Shini, if memory serves, that is exactly what the ray looked like. It kinda brings things into perspective when I see a picture. Are there any look-a-likes, or is that the only ray that has those markings? I don't want to bring home a bigger ray by mistake.

And, don't worry about raining on my parade, I'm just happy I could find a fish like that! Most stores I've seen never carry anything more exotic than a neon tetra, so, if I can find an oddity, I don't mind paying a little extra. I should also mention that I'm going to be working there this summer, and if I'm lucky, I could get an employee's discount or something. Plus, my mom would probabably be buying it anyway. "Tom, they have freshwater sting rays?! That's so cool!" Yep, I think she's sold :88))

Now, that we're sure that I'm getting the smaller stingray, would I be able to get away with smaller fish? For example:

the ray may eat the rams and clown loaches.

I could see why you would say that about a motoro, but would a Reticulata be a different case?

...but it will eat a number a fish if it wants to if its able to manage swooping down on it.

Of course, putting a large predatory fish into your tank, even a stingray, does limit the kinds of fish you can keep with it. I expect you're probably going to take it out of the picture. I'd worry about the rays taking down some of the smaller fish and eating them; it's definitely possible that they eat a few fish. Some people have thought that Discus and Rays would be perfect tankmates since they both require very clean water and therefore would go quite well with each other. It's been found Rays prefer the Discus with them more than the Discus preferred the Rays (in short, munch munch).

Now, these qoutes are making me a bit nervous (especially the sound effects) I assume you were talking about motoros, right? Because, the ray and the discus were my two favorite fish, as well as my mom's (and we all know, what mom says goes, so I want her to be happy) I certainly don't want big chichlids. As nice as they look, I already have dry pets, and I don't want any wet ones right now(except for my beloved future stingray). I want more active fish that would really be a topic of discussion in my livingroom (where it will be taking up a lot of space, so I want to make the most of it and really impress visitors).

And are you sure about angels and discus? I did some browsing and most of the sites said that the disease was a myth or that it could be prevented by Q-tineing the angel and dosing it with special meds
http://www.myfishtank.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-6707.html

Anyway, here’s what I plan on putting in the tank:
1 Reticulata ray
1 African butterfly fish
1 red-tail black shark
2 discus
2 angels (maybe)
3 pearl gouramis
3 clown loaches
4 bolivian rams
4 german rams
15 hatchet fish
30 black widows
30 black phantoms
30 diamond tetras
7 Congo tetras

I'm still not sure on the size. This will probably overstock a 180 gallon. But, I'm guessing it might work in a 300. I'm really not worried about numbers. I just put them there to get some ideas. I'll kepp you posted when I get the tank. It will probably be no earlier than Christmas though.

Thanks alot,
:88) Dj

Last edited by djtj at 12-Apr-2005 19:26