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I'll persuade you. Since it does seem that you like the Harlies. I'd go with the Lemons and the Harlies. I have Neons and find them quite boring. They don't school much and really...I'm just not a fan. Harlies are great schoolers and are very active. They have beautiful color, especially the males.

I've never kept Lemons, but have wanted to for awhile. They are beautiful when colored up (may not be at the LFS), but I've seen some nice pictures of them. Also, from what Cali says, they are quite interesting.

Either way, I think it will be a nice tank. I am partial to my Harlies though...

*Kristin*

Okay, so how many Harlies can I have with my the stocking lists above excluding the Neons? Also Is it possible to throw all the fish in at the same time with 2 extra rams and have the rams pair up in the middle of the other fish? That way I can stock the tank all tomorrow. Thanks.

EDIT: I'll make it Easier for you...

2 Rams
X Rasboras
7 Lemons
6 Cories

Chris

I would stock the tank piecemeal unless you are ABSOLUTELY sure that your biofilter can handle the loading.

Put the 6 Corys in first with the Rams. Then, add the Lemons. You have enough space for 8 by the way if you're also going with the Harlequin Rsboras. Wait about 3 weeks before adding the Lemons. Wait another 3 weeks, then add 8 Harlequins.

The end result will be quite something to watch.

Oh, if you're planning upon planting the tank, I would choose something nice and easy for stem plants at the back such as Hygrophyla polysperma that will grow like a weed with relatively little attention. If it grows in your aquarium the way it did in mine a few years back, you'll make quite a bit of money selling cuttings back to the LFS.

For the centre, I would opt for something slower growing such as a Cryptocoryne or an Aponogeton. Unless you have a wide expanse of space at the front, you'll find that an Amazon Sword, if it takes to your setup, will stage a campaign for world domination. Mine is trying its best to become a Giant Kelp as I write this.

If you have plants of differing heights, accompanied by odd gnarled pieces of bogwood with the occasional Java Fern growing upon one of the pieces, then you'll have 'landmarks' for the Lemons to strut their stuff alongside, adding to the interest. Let Java Moss grow on another piece of bogwood and in time, you'll have a nice spawning mop for the Lemons too, and a playground for the Corys into the bargain. It'll take about 6 months for everything to 'gel' and the plants to bed in properly, but once that's happened you'll have a nice aquarium that exudes the 'piece of river in the living room' look. Take your time, be selective with your bogwood, go for pieces that are gnarled and full of holes to provide caves for the Corys and archways for the Tetras to swim under, and in time, your aquarium will be the envy of your fellows. The beauty of using bogwood as a repository for plants such as Java Moss and Java Ferns is that the bogwood lumps can be removed wholesale during a gravel vac, and replaced. Why do you think I went down this route with the Panda Fun Palace? Makes maintenance a whole lot easier, and still results in the 'piece of river in the living room' look.

In a 29, you can cultivate quite an underwater rainforest for your fishes that will give them an adventure playground they will love. Your Lemons will like the mixed height plants for display purposes once they mature, the Harlequins will feel secure, and the Corys will have caves to frolic amongst if you go with the bogwood as well. The Rams will appreciate the bogwood as a spawning site too.

Additionally, position some floating plants strategically over the likes of some Cryptocoryne at the sides, and you'll have an aquarium that will provide you with a vista that approaches the wonders of the Amano setups, but with a good deal less maintenance than his affairs.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I am so Excited!!! I just got my rams and I love them! They are so cute and I got one male and one female right away. They already formed a pair they are already staying near eachother! So I will get the cories on Tuesday but should I really get the Lemons and Rasboras really that much later? Can't I put them both in, in like a week? Thanks.

EDIT: Pictures!

Tank Shot Before...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1056.jpg

Tank Shot After...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1064.jpg

Rams!
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1062.jpg

Chris

Yeah rams are really great fish. When I set up my first tank I got a pair and they layed eggs within a week of getting them. Yours might do the same. However, with rams it is harder keeping the fry alive than getting them to lay eggs. Also, what happened to that severum?

Well right now, the Tank is divided and the severum is going away tomorrow. The Rams don't have much room right now, so eggs will have to wait. So can I put in the lemons and Harlies next weekend or do I really have to wait? Thanks.

Chris

Ah, if you're removing a Severum, then you can put 8 Lemons in right away. However, I would hold off on the Harlies for another 3 weeks, give the system time to bed in with the new stock, then add the Harlies afterwards.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

OMG a short post from Calilasseia! Were you helping me plan my tank With the Severum or were you expecting it to go? I separated the tank b/c I was afraid the severum would eat the Rams. Can anyone shed some light here? Thanks.

Chris

I just called the fish store and my lemons and Cories are ready to rock. I am going to get rid of the Severum hopefully soon and then get those fish whenever I can. I'm so excited!

Chris

Well, if you're really intent on getting the Lemons to, and you rehouse the Severum quickly after you acquire the lemons, you could get the Lemons straight away. However, I would err on the side of caution, and rehouse the Severum first. If the LFS will take the Severum off your hands when you pick up the Lemons, you kill two birds with one stone so to speak.

Once the Lemons are settled, wait another 3 weeks, then add the Harlequins. By the way, which ones are you getting - the deep bodied heteromorpha, the elongate espei or the rare and unusual hengeli? Of the three, if I were getting them, I'd prefer the deep bodied heteromorpha, especially if you can get some good specimens with a nice large triangular body marking.

Oh, by the way, if you ever decide that you want to spawn your Harlequins, they don't spawn like other Rasbora type fishes. A single male and female perform an intricate dance, then the male curls his tail around the female as the pair, in an inverted position, place adhesive eggs upon the underside of a leaf of a plant such as Cryptocoryne or Aponogeton. Of the two plants, a Cryptocoryne species would be preferable, because that's the plant that the fish usually uses in the wild. Spawning will need fairly soft, slightly acidic wate (I've not seen anything in the literature that says they'll spawn in hard, alkaline water) and peat filtration is definitely beneficial in the spawning aquarium. Fry tend to be something of a challenge to raise because you have to balance low nitrates with relatively low mineral content, but it's perfectly possible, and once you see 100 or so fry in a big shoal, you'll probably want to emulate that with adults in a larger aquarium. Well conditioned mature females can produce a lot of eggs, by the way - the record to date (according to TFH in the 70s) is 365 eggs, 110% of which were fertile. 200 fry from a pair of Harlies is easily accomplished.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I think I am first going get rid of the Severum and then take out the divider then get the Lemons and Cories. I am afraid they will get eaten so I will just wait. Thanks.

EDIT: I am thinking of getting the Deep Bodied. Those are the standard type, right?

Chris

They're In! I just put in 6 Leopard Cories, and 8 Lemon Tetras. No one has any color and the Ram are kind of afraid and are hiding. But Hopefully they will adjust but Next weekend I will probably get 8 Harlies. Also can I get some Crustaceans? I'd Love some Cherry shrimp. Comments Appreciated.

Full Tank Shots...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1075.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1076.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1080.jpg

Close Up...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1078.jpg

EDIT: BTW I will be getting this light fixture and grow a LOT of plants...
http://www.hellolights.com/302xcofraqcf.html

Chris

Hey that is looking good! Cant wait to see the end result. Your tank looks like the same one I am stocking, You got me onto the Tetra Idea. I am glad you are going with the Harlies as you seemed happiest with that idea.

"Talk is cheap. Action can be almost as affordable"

Grim News. I lost three Lemon Tetras... I am going to go back next weekend to return them and get my 8 Harlies. Not much more of an update for now. Thanks.

Chris

What are your water parameters? Ammonia, nitrIte, nitrAte, pH?

Also, you'll need CO2 with that light fixture...preferably pressurized, as that is alot of light.

*Kristin*

The Problem was only That there was not enough acclimation time. That is fixed. About the CO2, Can I just get A LOT of plants to counteract the Alage? Does anyone know any simple CO2 rigs if I really need them? Thanks.

Chris

I had this same setup until recently in a 30G. I will just say IME the cories would always disrupt the parenting of the rams to the point that the rams would eat their fry just so the cories wouldn't eat them. The parents would ward off the cories, but the cories were relentless until eventually they ate enough fry when the rams would give up and eat them as well. Not sure if this is a common occurence.

By all means marry; if you get a good wife, you'll be happy. If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.
Socrates-
I happen to have become a philosopher

The Problem was only That there was not enough acclimation time. That is fixed. About the CO2, Can I just get A LOT of plants to counteract the algae? Does anyone know any simple CO2 rigs if I really need them? Thanks.

Any Answers?

So I have more pictures! This weekend I will be replacing my 5 lost lemons and getting 8 Harlequin Rasboras. I am losing more and more Ram fry. For those whom I promised some to You might need to wait till the next batch, I am losing a lot but who knows. So onto the pictures...

My very Photogenic Male Ram...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1083.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1086.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1090.jpg

My Chill Cories...
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1087.jpg
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i266/Gar0foli/PICT1089.jpg

That's It for now. Comments Appreciated. Thanks.

Chris

HANDSOME MALE!!!!!

The cories are really nice too I am glad the rams and cories are doing good. Sorry to hear about the lemons though.

Oh no the fry! How many are left? Maybe you should start rearing them yourself? I dont know much about breeding cichlids but it is just a guess. Sorry about the fry!

There are about 10 left and they are officially away from the parents. They are one their own and at 1/3 inches. Stupid Shipping! My Breeder net is taking a long time to come. The parents are ready to breed again. Hopefully they will survive.

Chris

About the CO2, Can I just get A LOT of plants to counteract the Alage? Does anyone know any simple CO2 rigs if I really need them?

I think you will need to get CO2. Even with alot of plants...that is just too much light. Even if you replaced one bulb with a 50/50 bulb, its still alot of light. Replacing one bulb with a 50/50 would be fine to use with DIY CO2. With the full 130 watts, I'd go with pressurized.

Why not get the 1x65w fixture? You still have alot of plant options with that one. I am able to grow some higher light plants with this fixture over my 29g without problems, even though it is only medium light. That would save you the trouble of CO2. DIY is easy to setup but its not very stable and you'll have CO2 fluctuations that may actually cause algae. Its also cheaper and you wouldn't have as big a fight with algae.

*Kristin*

The thing is I am planning on having a Reef tank so Why not just get the bigger light fixture now? So How much does a Pressurized CO2 system cost? Also could I always get Shrimp like amanos or something? What would work best? Thanks.

EDIT: I only have two Lemons left!

Chris

A good CO2 setup is about $300 or $400 and that is an estimate. It might be cheaper or more expensive....depends on what brands you get and where you shop.

Well you could leave a 50/50 bulb in and use the other daylight bulb and may be be ok with DIY CO2, but its not stable. But you could give it a shot.

You plan on turning this tank into a reef? You are just starting it as a planted tank. I understand about planning for the future...but how soon are you gonna have a reef?

Sorry about your Lemons I thought they were pretty hardy tetras...but doesn't seem like they are.

*Kristin*

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
My Male Ram Died!!!!!! I am so upset.


Chris

Oh no that is too bad.
How are your fry? I hope they are ok? Sorry you are loosing your fish.

Something must be going on in that tank...what are your ammonia, nitrIte, and nitrAte readings?

*Kristin*

The fry have signed a death wish. The Father is dead, The mother is dying... I think I will return the lemons and the living ram tomorrow to get back as many fish as possible. Oh Girlie Girl, Could I use shrimp to control the algae and will it really be that big of a problem with algae? Thanks.

EDIT: I am bringing a water sample. My Ammonia should be 0. My filter guarantees it. My Nitrate is 5ppm and I don't know my Nitrite.

Chris

Oh Girlie Girl, Could I use shrimp to control the algae and will it really be that big of a problem with algae?

Shrimp don't eat all kinds of algae, and I can't predict what kind you will have.

Its possible, if you use 50/50 bulbs, that you won't have too bad of an algae problem, if you have alot of fast growing plants...that is if you use the 50/50 bulbs.

If you use the full daylight bulbs, then there is no telling what kind of algae you will grow. The plants will have high light, no CO2, and will not be able to outcompete the algae. I personally wouldn't try it because when I first setup my 55g, I didn't have enough plants and I had 2.4wpg, which isn't alot, unless you don't have many plants. I had beard algae all over the place and it wasn't until I added lots and lots of hygro and changed the substrate (taking everything out and then back in) that it went away. And that is with medium light and no CO2. I wouldn't try that again...it looked horrible.

But really, its your tank, not mine, so you can use the full daylight bulbs over the tank. See what happens and just be warned that it isn't a good idea to have 4+ watts per gallon over a tank without CO2. I suggest if you do use the daylight bulbs, atleast have some DIY CO2. Atleast then you'll have some CO2 and the plants won't be totally deprived.

*Kristin*

Amano Shrimp eat a LOT of Algae and also. Where is a website with Good C02 Systems I can buy. The ones I found were ranging from $75 to $150 and they were the whole set. Thanks.

Chris

Im sorry to hear about the fish.....poor fry. Maybe the lemons brought a disease with them? So there are no fry huh? I guess I will just get some from where I was planning to in the first place... Sorry to hear about the daddy fish. Good luck with the rest of your fish...

Well my tank is going downhill except for my Cories. My female ram dosent look good and those two lemons dont look good either. Tommorow I am going to get 2 Rams, 8 Lemons, and 8 Harlies. Platy, I'll get you some new fry if you want? Comments Appreciated. Thanks.

Chris

I wouldnt get any new fish until you figure out what is causing this mass death in your tank. I will think about it. If you get a good healthy batch going then sure I will take some. But I odnt think I want any until they coem from a healthy tank. I hope that doesnt sound harsh or anything. I mean I just want to make sure I am getting good fish.

I understand. The tank is healthy. I either got a bad batch or they weren't acclimateed enough. When they test my water I will decide whether I cam getting new fish. Thanks.

Chris

For a pressurized CO2 system you'll need:
*regulator w/ or w/out a solenoid
*tubing
*good check valves (not plastic)
*reactor or diffusor
*CO2 tank

Regulators run around $75-80
Good check valves are about $15
Reactor is around $40-50 depending on brand, where you get it.
Diffusors are usually cheaper, around $15
CO2 tank is around $50-60 depending on where you get it and how much they run and how big a tank you get.
Tubing is around $0.80/foot.

So you can build one yourself for around $180, but that is just my estimate and doesn't include shipping or anything else you might need.

A good site to check out is Aquatic-store.com. You'll have to search for a CO2 tank/cylinder, because I don't think that site sells them...usually people look at local welding supply shops.

I am currently shopping for a CO2 system, but I need parts for running CO2 to 2 tanks, so my estimate was more for that I think. Plus all the other stuff I need...

You should ask more questions about pressurized CO2 in the aquatic plant section. There are people who actually have CO2 systems on their tanks that can be more helpful.

*Kristin*

Geez. Would any type of Shrimp work? Even a giant colony?

Chris

OK.
Did you get the rams at the same time as the lemons?

I returned whatever was alive except for 5 Cories. (One was not a leopard Cory) I got 8 Rasboras, 1 Leopard Cory and 2 Rams. I have lost one Rasbora already and My ram was swimming upside down(what does that mean?)!!! I am going to call the store tommorrow and complain! Otherwise the tank looks nice. I am too lazy to get pictures now. Maybe I'll update it.

Chris