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  L# 30 Gallon Paludarium-Need help!!!
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Subscribe30 Gallon Paludarium-Need help!!!
Okyrah
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Small Fry
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Registered: 10-Nov-2006
Well my 30 gallon tank is getting shipped out today, so I should expect it home soon, and I need some input. It's a thirty hex paludarium which will house four poison dart frogs and maybe a fish. I don't think it will be quite big enough for anything more than a betta fish, but do you have any thoughts? This is a picture of it:
http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/5237/jesstank2jp7.jpg

The whole thing will be planted, including the water feature spot, and I don't think there is an easy way to filter it, thus limiting my fish choices. I'm thinking either blue danios/betta fish/paradise fish/khuli loaches?

Whats some good plants to put in the water? Anubias, java fern, crypts swords? And whats a good substrate? Thanks for the help

55 Gallon Aquarium
10 Gallon Poison Dart Frog Viv
(Soon) 30 Gallon Hex Paludarium
Post InfoPosted 27-Dec-2006 20:21Profile PM Edit Report 
sirbooks
 
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Do you know whether the poison from the frogs would affect the health of the fish if it got into the water? I don't know enough about the frogs to be sure. If it was safe, I'd recommend a fish that is fairly sedentary, like a betta or perhaps a small gourami species. There are probably other options, but those are all that come to mind right now. Personally I'd skip the loaches and danios. The danios like to swim around a lot, and the loaches will be out of sight much of the time.

Swords wouldn't be a good choice for a small volume of water, and crypts can be touchy, from what I've read. Anubias and Java fern are very hardy and fairly slow growing, and need little light. They would be good choices.

Natural color aquarium gravel would be ideal for the substrate. It won't look out of place, and is easy to clean with a siphon, unlike sand.



And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."
Post InfoPosted 29-Dec-2006 07:02Profile MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
Okyrah
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Small Fry
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The frogs lose their poison in captivity (due to a lack of food that they would eat in the rainforest) therefore they are completely safe. I added some natural gravel, and I want to filter the water somehow, but I'm not sure that's possible. And I don't have a way to heat it unfortunately either, but the light is 14 watts only and I do have a heater for my room right next to the tank. So maybe if I add hotter water everyday?

55 Gallon Aquarium
10 Gallon Poison Dart Frog Viv
(Soon) 30 Gallon Hex Paludarium
Post InfoPosted 05-Jan-2007 03:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
sirbooks
 
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If the water is deep enough, you could cram an internal power filter in there. Other than that, I can't really think of anything. I suppose it's possible to rig up a pump/tubing system that leads to another container where the water is filtered remotely, but it would be a pain and farther than most people want to go. I wouldn't want to build one myself.

Adding warmer water daily wouldn't do much because it would quickly give off the excess heat. Sounds like you will have to rely on your room temp here. If your room is fairly chilly, coolwater fish will be what you're gunning for. I'm no good with them, so I can't help with the fish choices.



And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."
Post InfoPosted 05-Jan-2007 05:35Profile MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
sham
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If you have enough water for a fish you should have enough water for at least a small 25w heater and possibly an internal filter. If not then you are probably better off not putting fish in there. I can stick a 25w heater and duetto mini filter in a 5g with plenty of space to spare. Even in just 3g of water you should be able to fit a 25w heater. Then a male betta or if you have space for more than 1 fish a few female bettas would probably work best. Other small gouramis could work but are more sensitive to water quality and not recommended for tanks without filtration unless they are very heavily planted. I can't think of any coldwater fish that stay small or aren't active schoolers.

For plants java fern, mosses, and anubias are the usual choices for such a setup. They will spread out of the water some as well as growing completely underwater. Depending on humidity they could grow everywhere in the tank. I'd bet wendtii crypts would also work. I've grown them in all sorts of setups and they are one of the hardiest plants I have in my tanks. They are stubborn little plants and grow like weeds for me. Especially the brown variety. I have some hooked on driftwood with no substrate still showing signs of growth and moved some to a brackish tank that are at least surviving. My 2nd favorite small plant would be aquatic clover(marsilea). It also grows like a weed in my 55g and I've put it in tanks with various flow and various light with success.

For something natural looking that grows plants very well try eco complete. Actually kinda looks like mud or soil on the bottom of the tank instead of rock. It might match your setup a little better than gravel or flourite.
Post InfoPosted 05-Jan-2007 06:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Just to give you some ideas for head and filters and such, check out this thread by Matty.

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/31414.1.htm?134#

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 05-Jan-2007 15:00Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
longhairedgit
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EditedEdited by longhairedgit
From the poison frogs point of view its sounds odd that a frog should worry about drowning , but drown they do! If you add filtration it might be better to make it from an undergravel system, as any frog that falls into the water might not escape the sucking intakes of an internal power filter, and will probably drown.If you can use an attachment like eheims internal prefilter for external filters the intake suction will be nice and low. Might be nice to make a little waterfall feature from the outflow though, it will help retain ambient humidity and allow you to grow live mosses and airplants etc. If you dont heat the water it should probably stay close to 70 degrees give or take , and then possibly you could consider fish like hillstream loaches to keep underwater decor free of algae, and maybe paradise fish for the display element. If the required temps for the frogs are met, the water should probably be in the low 70's f anyway , so look for fish at the cooler end of the tropical scale, but not true coldwater fish

One question about using the crate design in a paludaria- how do you get underneath it to clean it? If your planning to have fish in there. The poo will seriously collect in the area of slower flow under the crating. If not cleaned the ammonia may hurt the frogs as well as the fish so I think you will need filtration,and then you may still have uncleanable areas under the crates and the nitrate may rise beyond acceptable levels for the fish.

Try to address cleaning issues pre-emptively as part of the design process.
Post InfoPosted 07-Jan-2007 04:42Profile MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
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