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i have a well planted 55G (originally a South American setup).
ok heres what i got already
2 blue rams(pair)
18 neon tetras
9 black widow tetras
5 bronze corys
1 BN
i saw these new type of dwarf gouramis at my LFS, they were called rainbow dwarf gouramis. they look like a "sunset" or "flame" dwarf but the upper third of the body is powder blue and the body has a green-ish shean that shows when in side lighting. im plannig on getting
2 males+4 females
just wondering whether they will get along with the blue rams?

well.. my gold gouramis get along great with my 2 bolivian rams....

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

In a 55g maybe although I'd probably stick with 1 male and 2females to avoid territory issues. 2 male dwarf gouramis can be hard enough to keep together and mine killed each other in a 55g with no other territorial fish. Add in blue rams and things might turn out bad.

rams arnt territorial!

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

freshreef, all cichlids are territorial during breeding.

Rams can sometimes be quite territorial especially a male and female with some eggs or fry. In a tank full of rams even when not breeding you will see lots of arguments over territory constantly going on. Usually though rams do not kill each other like more agressive cichlids unless very cramped or another fish keeps pushing into their territory without back down. I do know of one occasion though where a pair of rams killed a dozen tankmates overnight in a 30g tank.

The female GBR I had was territorial...not to the point that she hurt any of the other fish, but she would chase them away if they got too close...she was fiesty to be only 2 inches.

And all cichlids can be territorial..especially during breeding, like said above.

*Kristin*

freshreef, all cichlids are territorial during breeding.

true... sorry I diddnt think of that....

29gall-2 bolivian rams, 6 neon tetra, 4 lemon tetra, 2 lamp eye tetra, 6 black skirt tetra(which are rescues...long story, but finding good home soon), 4 zebra danio 10gall, pretty much nothing but plants....2gall-female betta
1gall-female betta

i kept 2 male and 3 female dwarf gouramis in my 20G. i had no aggression problems, the males would flare up and do that little dance (love it when they do that) but they didn't ever hurt each other.
when my rams breed the female gets a little territorial but only to the other rams i had(dont have them any more, ICH). After about a day she loses interest in the eggs and the male eats them.
the dwarfs i had stayed in the top half of the tank and nether ventured further down, and my rams stay down the bottom unless feeding. wouldnt they stay in their preffered strata anyway?
im just asking whether the dwarfs will hurt the blue rams?

I have a VERY territorial pearl gourami who chases around all of the fish in my 40g, except for my bolivian rams. Strangely enough, she actually "hangs out" with my rams and stays close to them.

In your scenario, im sure the rams will be fine, especially since they are housed in a 55g, where territorial disputes can be settled easily. So i wouldnt worry too much about your rams getting hurt.

I don't think there is a danger to the rams. I only question whether that many gouramis along with the rams will have enough area to set up desireable territories or if one of the gouramis will be constantly picked on. I would only add 1male and several females instead of 2males and twice as many females.

Ok how about 1m/2f dwarf gouramis and either 7 rummynose tetras or 10 neon tetras.
wich do you think would look nicer in this setup
27 neons or 17 neons and 7 rummynoses.
Plz reply within the next 24 hours coz the new stock comes in to the LFS on tuesday.

thanx

I also would think that this setup may work, but maybe there could be issues. Just some thoughts, not that they will apply, but they could:

- Adding another 5 fish may push the tank population to the limit.
- There could be agression between the male gouramies, but it depends on the individual. Given that you want this "new breed", I would assume these fish haven't seen the wild in many generations (cross-bred on farms) and they may have lost the instince of ownership over the tank. zachf92's pearls are more bossy than dwarfs, that is for sure.
- I find Pearls way more interesting than dwarfs, in the long run. More action, more grace.
- Why break with the South American setup?

coop - I am a little confused about your last post. I thought the tank is already set with fish (your initial entry says that these are fish that you have already) and all you want to do is add some more. Where does the rummies thing come from?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LITTLE_FISH
First of all after ready my last post i have no idea on what in the world i was talking about.

The first post lists the fish i already have in the tank. After these fish i have approxamately 45cm worth of fish body length i can add before it is fully stocked.

The reason i was going to break the south american setup was because a couldnt find a colourful, interesting fish that stays at the top level of the tank.

I really like the pearl gouramis, but i already have black widows wich have a reputation of shredding long flowing fins of slow moving fish. This makes the pearls a perfect target for a good ole fin nipping.

Now i saw these dwarf gouramis and thought they looked great. So i thought i might aswell get some, with a ratio of 2m/4f. The replys i got told me id be better off with 1m/2f. This leaves me with around 25-30cm worth of fish body length to spare.

My options then were to buy(aswell as the dwarfs) 10 more neons and add them to my school of 17, wich would make it 27 neons in total.

Or instead of buying more neons i could add a small group of rummys(probably isnt the best idea as they like to be in a big school).

Now you have me thinking i should keep the SA setup.
therefore i could ditch the dwarf gourami idea and instead add 9 rummynoses.
so its
2 blue rams(pair)
18 neon tetras
9 black widow tetras
5 bronze corys
1 BN
+
option 1: 1m/2f dwarf gouramis with an extra 10 neons
or
option 2: 9 rummys

Are you getting me now?
i think i understand what im saying



so what is your prefernce dwarf gouramis, or keep the South american setup going?


thanx
WBS!!!!

coop,

I got you now

Well, I think it all boils down to preference. I have not validated your max fish load, but if you say that you are not maxed out and if the visuals are not in a way that there is a fish everywhere already, then I would say you are all right with adding more.

Here would be my personal preferences:

- Dwarfs do not stay on top anyway all the time.
- You already have 3 schools (including the cories) so adding the rummies would create too many schools, IMHO.
- You have a biotope, but I personally have not yet based a tank on biotope, I prefer to throw together whatever I like.

So, given that you have success in maintaining Neons (I never did), I would suggest you beef up that school.

On the other hand, even if the tank can handle more fish, having a fish in every open spot discourages the patrolling of the tank by schools (my experience only) and makes the fish hang out in one spot only.

As I said, tough choice here. Do you have a picture of the tank somewhere? That may help.

Also, although I currently don't have any particular idea about it, you could search for another center fish (or pair). I would not rush it and rather let the coming Tuesday come and go before I buy fish that after a few weeks don't turn out to be what I truely wanted.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I really like the pearl gouramis, but i already have black widows wich have a reputation of shredding long flowing fins of slow moving fish. This makes the pearls a perfect target for a good ole fin nipping.

Black Widows arent really all that nasty. Sure, they can sometimes be nippy and aggressive, but most of the aggression is held within the school. I currently have 2 (my other 3 died ), but even so, i've never seen them become nippy towards any other fish im my tank. In fact, my pearl gourami chases the black widows around constantly.

So i would guess that a pearl gourami would be fine in your set-up, but if your really worried about the gourami getting nipped, just buy a female.

What are you basing these stocking numbers on? I don't think any tank should be stocked by some set formula or numbers. There are too many variables. I feel that your tank is mostly stocked as is and a small group of dwarf gouramis or slightly increasing one school is going to put your tank at the limit.

You also have to take into account rummies are some of the most sensitive fish you will find in a fish store. Check out some of the posts in the tetra section of the forum and you'll see why. The death rate on these fish is extremely high and can take several tries and cash to get a proper school established in your tank. I also would not add another school. The more schools you have the more they interfere with each other and the less schooling behavior you get to see. Eventually you just have a mass of random fish.

I hate sticking to biotopes. The restrictions are annoying and it's not like I really know what it looks like in those places anyway. I'd have to do all this research and if I'm lucky might find pictures so it doesn't bother me that my tank doesn't look like a certain place in the world. It doesn't look wrong to me and that's all that matters.

I like a bit of variety in my tank that is why i dont particularly want more neons.
i have had my eyes set on pearl gouramis for quit some time. So im going to take Zachf92's word and try a trio, personaly i have never seen my black widows nip fins before not even to the long fin black widow.