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does anyone have an idea what this is?








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OH TOLEEDY!

another pic




OH TOLEEDY!

Any background to help us out? Eg. where you came across it?

It looks like it's in Perciformes, but that's about all I could tell you.

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My first thought was that it was a juvenile White Crappie, Pomoxis annularis. In the July 1977 issue of TFH, thre is an article on Crappies - both the White Crappie, Pomoxis annularis, and the Black Crappie, Pomoxis nigromaculatus. The article is on pages 31 & 32, and on page 32, there is a photo (black and white) of a juvenile Black Crappie that looks like a spotted version of your fish.

If this is indeed your fish, then it is a Sunfish - Family Centrarchidae. It's a carnivore, reaching 53 cm in length, and usually proves difficult to waen away from live fishes as food, though this is possible with patience. Its size, large appetite once feeding, and partically Cichlid-like territorial nature when breeding make it a fish for a VERY large aquarium. It's an American native, is usually found in the southern States, and is more tolerant of turbid water than its close cousin, which is a cooler water fish found in clear lakes and rivers in the north.

Incidentally, thought the two fishes are differentiated by name as "White Crappie" (for the unspottted species) and "Black Crappie" for the spotted species) the truth of the matter is that there is a GREAT deal of overlap in appearance bewteen individuals of each species. Definitive idnetification requires meristic analysis, including taking dorsal hard ray counts and measuring various body length ratios.

Breeding of this fish follows the typical Sunfish pattern - males build nests into which they entice females to lay eggs. Males then assume exclusive responsibility for brood care.

When older, Crappies (who on earth thought of calling them this?) have cavernous mouthparts that can engulf sizeable prey. Tempttion to swallow tankmates or pond companions should not be presented to them, as they will thank you kindly for your benevolence in this regard and help themselves to every fish that they can swallow!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

thanks evereyone, all i know about this fish are that they turned up as extras in the last order that my lfs got .no mention of them on the invoice. i think they may be some sort of aussie native . very interesting fish , i am thinking of buying them , if i can find out what they are.



cheers dan


OH TOLEEDY!

It looks like some Ambassis species...

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

It on the tip of my tongue, the big eye gives it away but I can't quite think of the name right now, I'm going to do some fin ray counting and see if i can find something.

edit: can i get a picture of the tail please, it would help alot

hope this helps





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OH TOLEEDY!

Still looks like a juvenile Pomoxis annularis to me - those fishes have big eyes as juveniles. Plus, if the dorsal and anal fins are connected, not separate, then it can't be a Centropomid Glassfish because their hard rayed and soft rayed dorsals are separated by a gap. Most of the aquarium Centropomids are translucent anyway, which this fish isn't ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I will second all that Calilasseia has said, it is definitly in the family Centrarchidae. Dorsal fin spine and ray counts, anal spine and ray counts, caudal shape, and body shape all confirm this the I have not single out the genus or species. Still working on this.

So, to be booksmart, and inexperienced... perciform it must be. Now which one...

PERCIFORM possibilities:

Family Ambassidae (Chandidae) (Glassfishes):
- dorsal fins match but not the hump nose

Family Centrarchidae (sunfishes):
- micropterus dolomieui (smallmouth bass)
- Acantharchus pomotis (mud sunfish)

Family Percichthyidae (temperate perches):
- nannaperca australis (S. Australian pygmy perch)

I wish I had pics of juvies too.

The dorsal fin does most closely resemble centrarchidae, but the front dorsal rays being taller is the exact opposite of the sunfishes. I've spent some serious time with the fine book Fishes of Missouri, which includes the crappies and all, and it just doesn't match (and doesn't match my experience fishing in the land of sunfishes that is my home state - Missouri).

I'm not familiar with SA sunfish...so that is an option.

Anyone know what a black banded sunfish (it's an east coast USA fish I've never actually seen except in books) looks like when young? It looks rather similar without the stripes.

Eric

thanks for the big effort guys i am endeavoring to out from the wholesaler .keep the ideas coming




cheers dan

OH TOLEEDY!

Could be a native. Maybe a silver perch? I would have said Australian Bass, but it doesnt look dark enough.

For comparison, I've scanned the photo of the juvenile Pomoxis nigromaculatus from the TFH article and included it here. Pomoxis annularus tends not to be spotted anywhere near as heavily as a juvenile, but otherwise the two fishes are similar. Note the large eye that the juvenile fish possesses, and the dorsal fin detail. There's definitely a similarity between the mystery fish and a Pomoxis juvenile.


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Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

The shape of the pupils is different... The Crappie has a round pupil while the "mystery fish" has a more pointed pupil.

I still say it's some Australian native.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

Also, the morphology of the dorsal fin exactly matches that of an Ambassid, and doesn't look anything like that of a North American sunfish (i.e. a Crappie).

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.