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I have no clue, but I would like to add that I'm eternally jealous that you have a syno angelicus.

Well I'm checkin out my 125 this morning,and I get a RARE view of my Syno Angelicus. Whats this? His colors are not looking good(very light brown). Time for my monthly NitrAte test(s). WOW over a 100. 55gal=WOW about 80. 75g=10,40g=10,30g=5. 50% H2O changes for the 55&125. Now down to 60&70 respectively. Also runnin NITRA-ZORB in both after change. Check my profile for stock. 55 running for 15 months and current stock is about 48".125/7months/88". Both tanks have some live plants(Swords,grasses,bamboo). Tap water has 0 nitrAtes. Now I do weekly H2O @ bout 20%. I am very good about this as I had 160 PPM in my 55(overstocked) before the move to the 125 as I slacked to 2 weeks or so. Any ideas on what I might be doing wrong? Has anyone used NITRA-ZORB with success before? Any ideas on what "might" be going on are very appreciated. Any plant changes or adds I should try? Maybe adjust my stock? Higher volume H2O changes? I will test again tommorow morning and post. BTW 55gal=Fluval 404 & Penguin 330,125gal=Fluval 404& Penguin 330 & Penguin 350. Also my Angelicus became instantly darker(although very upset as I added new water to tank from PYTHON as I usually use 4 or 5 5gal buckets that sit for 24hrs). Tanks for any help guys/gals as I'm dumbfounded due to my maintence schedule. I'm sorry could a moderater please move to water quality. Thanks.

Last edited by stallion81 at 23-Mar-2005 16:00

OK. Update. First of all for the Nitrazorb, do I use aquarium salt(as I have been) or regular non iodized table(Morton) salt for the recharge? Its 1 Tbls/salt to 1 cup 120 degrees h2o. I currently have all tanks at 30ppm or lower. The 55 rebounded and is my lowest at 7ppm. Gonna keep running Nitrazorb in 125 till I can get to 5ppm for better testing results per day. Have not performed any h2o changes since Sat. and no tank has rose more than 10ppm in the last 3 days. I shuffled and sold some stock, but I'm not done shuffling so to speak. Also got ahold of some Hornwort at the auction and added to 125 and 55. I think I'm gonna put off the breeding "attempts" till I can control what I have going on now. Gots me a box of plants comin Thurs. so the 55 will become heavily planted and some are going to 30 and 120. BTW anybody looking for a nice group of female Fulleborni(OB style=5), as I swapped the Syno. Multis for the Tropheus chimbas before the auction, and found my male Full.(marmalade cat) dead when I got home. Darn and I spoke too soon when I said I haven't lost a fish in a while]:|. Caution as Tropheus are terrorizers. Them mean sunsofguns are gettin the 75 to themselves. But anyways things are looking brighter on this part of the country.

Thanks for thr reply Tribble. I will switch to Prime after I use the Amquel. Tanks have no SALT. I'm thinning out my stock to start with. All tetras are out of 55(maybe my angels wont eat their eggs now?) and the gibby is getting moved this weekend. I'm gonna stop using the Nitrazorb(yes I do know the recharge,but have never rinsed before adding to tank). As for plant fert, I do use Leafzone, as maybe think IRON might be needed. Also will be uping my water change % per week according to daily readings after both tanks stock is lightened. In the end I beleive it comes down to stock(waste load). I just have big fish(or snakes,as I call my wifes Bichirs) and need to stock accordingly. After over 1.5 years, I might get it now. Good thing i'm not afraid to ask questions. But anyways at least I have not lost a fish in a while, I just want them to be as healthy as my dogs. Time,Practice,Patience,and USE my tests(thats what I bought them for). Thanks folks.

There is one main difference between Prime and AmQuel Plus: The concentration. One teaspoon of Amquel plus will treat ten gallons of water, but the same teaspoon of Prime will treat 50 gallons. Much better deal if you ask me. I use it for all my water changes. However, with all these type products all they do is BIND the ammonia (and nitrites, and nitrates etc) until their levels are brought down with regular water changes (as per the packaging). This means a)you are still putting in ammonia etc that you will need to remove, and b)ammonia, nitrates, etc. will still TEST POSITIVE, even if they've been neutralized.

You said you have live plants; are you fertilizing? Many fertilizers contain nitrates. A good nitrate free one is Leaf Zone. With lots of fish you (obviously) don't need a fertilizer with nitrates added.

As per nitrazorb... it won't work if there is any salt in your water (I don't know if you have any added or not, just thought I'd mention) and also try recharging it more often. To recharge it you soak it for a few hours in some saltwater (a cup of freshwater salt per half gallon of water or so in a bucket should work) then rinse it and use it again.

The only other thing I can think of is gravel vacuming more often..?

I'm so adjective, I verb nouns!

Update: Well folks I think I might have found "part" of the problem. When I said I tested my tapwater before and got a trace of ammo, it was actually my 24 hour water(5g buckets). I tested straight from tap today and Ammo was 5ppm. So I think on top of thinning my stock, I am gonna change my dechlorinater. Used to use Stress coat and then switched to Aquasafe(4 months now). I purchased a bottle of Amquel plus. Was also considering Prime. Which do you folks use if any? Also to C o L, yes the Royal will go to the 125 when the swicth(to community) happens. The Gibby will be quite a load by then and will be sold. Dont worry as I only paid $20 for him at 5.5", but he is NOT to be compromised. To ACID, no not yet but will become a member next auction(only been to 2). If I get wind of it,I'll be there also. And to all FP people, thanks for much info and after over 1.5 years of keepin fish, I think I finally realize a 6" fish produces more waste than 6-1" or 2-3" fish. And to all, if my endevors into breeding my Multi Cats go well, I will offer some on this site for next to nothing and if I only get cichlids they will be FREE.Thanks again folks.

Are you a member of the GCCA? The ACA convention will be in Chicago area in 2006. I'll be there!

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There is always a bigger fish...

I dunno, in a 55, the royal most likely won't make it to 10". But you are correct in that they develop slowly. Mine is only about 8" , and I purchased him as a 4" specimen two years ago. Seems like a great deal, as he doubled in length, but considering it's only 2" per year, that's not terribly much. Still, I'd relocate him asap.

My Royal is about 6" to tip of tail. Have owned him for 8 months and he's only grown about1/2". I live in the Chicago area, therefore have been to the Shedd Aquarium. They have 1 on display that is about 14" or so. Very old fish and VERY slow growers.My plans are to turn the 125 to community when Clowns are ready for it. I will not keep the Royal or Gibby after 9 or 10". The Gibby prolly be gone within the year(4" now),as I have grown 1 before. But can HOPEFULLY keep the Royal for up to 5 more years. And to Acid, it is the ICS auction in Willowbrook IL. Sadly it may be their last. Still have the GCA auctions around here though. I will post my NitrAte readings after todays water changes.

Stallion, where are you from, that there is an auction on the 3rd of April? The reason I ask, is our local club auction is on the 2nd of April. Can't wait, as usual, always over a thousand bags of fish in them.

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There is always a bigger fish...

How large is your royal? you are aware that they grow to massive sizes, correct?

I just got done with another water change on both(15gal for 55/25+gal for 125). NitrAtes are down to 30/40 respectively. I will do 1 more change tomorrow,pull the NITRAZORB, and then test every day to see the "rise" of nitrAtes per day. There happens to be a auction on the 3rd of April,so I have a chance to sell some stock(need to sell EL's anyway). Heres what I'm thinking: 125g= sell 3 or 4 Trets, 1M Tropheus"chimba",and the Syno Eupterus. 55g= sell 8 Tetras,maybe 1 Clown loach. Then move some Plecs. Stock could be 125=6 Tropheus chimba(1M/5F),1 Lelupi,1 Neo Brichardi,1or2 Tretrocephelus,1 Syno Angelicus,1 Syno Brichardi,1 Syno Hybrid,1 Poly Ornate,1 Poly Albino Senegal,1 Albino Gibbiceps 55g=2 Angels,4or5 Clown loaches,1 Royal plec,1 L264 plec,1 BN plec. Now I know the Bichirs cannot stay forever,but they are my wifes favorite,and told her I would keep as long as possible. The Clowns are for the 125,but thats awhile off. Was hopin to swap with the Bichirs at about 5"(clowns). You guys/gals think I'm on the right track? Again my tanks current stock is in my profile. Any other suggestions more than welcome.Thanks again. Oh and Jester that might be a great idea. I could swap the 404 for the penguin 330 or 350,as I used to run the 55 with a Penguin 330 and Whisper 30/60.

Last edited by stallion81 at 24-Mar-2005 14:22

OK. I checked ammo and nitrItes(fresh lab/red sea). NitrItes are 0. Now I do have a trace reading of ammo in both tanks. Exact match with the water out of the tap. When I say trace it does not appear 0 but also no where near .25. Its a guess at maybe .05ppm. Now I guess I can understand the reading out of the tap, but how do I get the same reading in the tanks if I am showing 0 nitrItes and high nitrAtes. Maybe my eyes are off and it is really 0? I also used JUNGLE ammo dips to confirm and just off 0 again. When I clean the tanks its gravel vac 1/2 tank 1st week,just water 2nd,gravel vac other 1/2 3rd, and just water 4th week. Filter maintenence on water only changes. My 125 has some large caves of texas holy rock so I donot get under them often, but gravel is very thin and when adding water I "flush" those areas so to speak. Let me look at my stock and see if I cannot sell some, as it seems you guys think I'm overstocked.

Well I usually only feed 1 time a day.Maybe bigger % changes or 2 times a week are due. Nitrates are still about 60 this morning in both tanks(only can run NITRAZORB 2 days and has been running almost 1 so far). I didnt check ammo and nitrites. I will do that now and post. I checked tap yesterday and nitrates were 0. I will check ammo and nitrites on all now. Thanks

As long as your nitrIte and ammonia levels are 0, then your biological filter is doing well. You might have to start doing 50% weekly water changes on those tanks, if they are over stocked. I do 50% weekly water changes on the tanks I have over stocked. And some, even more. The other thing, what are your nitrAte readings from the tap water before adding it to the tank. Many tap water readings have what we consider to be high nitrAte levels right out of the tap. Though where I live now, luckily they are quite low as compared to many places. If yours are on the higher side (I have heard of them being 6-7 out of the tap), this will indeed require you to do more water changes. As you will never be able to get them any lower than what you start with, even with some kind of nitrAte scrubber. Because the biological filters, will be increasing the amount, as fast as the scrubbers are taking it out. If you have the ability to do so, you may want to filter the tap water for several days, with the scrubbers, before adding it to the tanks.

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There is always a bigger fish...

How well do you vacuum the tanks at each water change? How often and how much are you feeding the fish?

Yes, i understand you're not a newbie, but it might be time to consider how much food is going into the water, both uneaten and as fish waste. Increasing your plant stock can help, but as Nitrates are the end of your cycle, the only reliable way to remove them is with regular water changes. I'd suggest that 20% once a week on either of those tanks at those stock levels is part of the problem. I'd be doing 15-20% twice a week, with a heavy gravel vacuum, splitting the tank in half each time you vacuum(e.g. vac one end on tuesday, and one on saturday). I've found with my Oscars that i require 2 * 15% water changes weekly, now they are quite big, to keep the 70G Nitrates below 15ppm. Palnts help stabilise this, but they don't last long with my Oscars.

Personally, i'd put the 2 * 404's on the 125G and move the other filters to the 55G, with the plan of putting a 304 on the 55g at some time in the future.

I guess the other questions are how where the ammonia and nitrite readings?

Last edited by jester_fu at 23-Mar-2005 20:33

Well, I have to say, your tanks are quite overstocked, so that is probably of concern (cut down on feedings, too). Though it hasn't happened before, you admittedly haven't checked the tests in a month, so the problem could have been occuring for quite a while.



Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 23-Mar-2005 23:40

Yeah good reply CoL, but I know I can get them down, but how to stay there. I do 20% h2o changes a week. Are the types of fish I keep gargantuan waste producers? I think the Polypterus are alot, so should I consider 2 to 1 or 3/1? Fish are fed usually 1 times a day, maybe 2(weekends). Only live food in the 125 not the 55(as they are showing similar nitrAte levels). Granted all my Synos and fish are not skinny,but they are not hugely overweight. I just don't get it? You think your doin great in keeping, but your tests tell you different. Anyway I'd rather be in my 30gal than my 125 if I were my fish.

Daily water changes will bring your nitrates down to the level you fee; satisfied with, then weekly, if not bi, afterwards.

My favorite of my 7 Types. Thats the worry, Synos donot like nitrAtes(as most fish), and also have clown loaches in 55. And on top of the crappy water quality, my Angels just laid eggs yesterday in the 55. Go figure. I'm colorblind, but my wife is reading my tests(aqua pharmceuticals) when shes here. I CAN get them down with water changes as before, but why are they not staying below 20ppm or so. I would be happy with that. Heck my 30 is at 5ppm and do 5gals/wk and its my smallest tank(upstairs). I thought bigger tanks were supposed to be easier? Anyway thats why I'm here at FP, for insight and knowledge.