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It's not the most pleasant thing in the world, but it must be done because some fish require live fish to stay healthy, unlike oscars.

When I first started working at the LFS and was faced with the responsibility of feeding the freshwater predators, I was really uncomfortable with it. But after a while, I just sort of got "desensitized" to it, and now I can toss a few feeders in with a gar and not even give it a second thought.

I have no ethical issues with it, as it is a necessity with many kinds of fish. I don't really see it any different from humans eating beef or chicken.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

i have no remorse in feeding live foods. i grow my own feeder guppys, blackworms, daphina, and microworms. i feed guppys because i have a guppy tube that will make over 25 fry any regular day of the week, a fraction of that will survive to adult hood in the wild. if i dont feed my predatory fish the fry frist, the parents will eat them. i have certain predatory fish in my brackish tank that are ambush eatters. they pretty much will die if their food dosent move in front of them.

100 gallons? . I've not seen one of these places have anything near 100 gallons for feeders. Well, I take that back. There is a large tub for large goldfish used as feeders or pond fish in two of the stores. That one, they don't let you see, but the ones on the floor *holds nose*. Its more like 200 fish crammed into a 30-40 gallon tank, or so it looks.

Anyone else have experiences about feeder tanks in their area? Are the fish healthy looking and well fed? How do the tanks look - clean or dirty?

I have a tough time that my small corner of the world is the only place with such disgusting feeder fish tank conditions.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 21-Mar-2005 13:01

I have to add my experience in with Cory_Di's, actually... I have six stores close to me and none of them have healthy looking feeder tanks. Two or three of them just have bad tanks in general, but even the ones that have spectacular tanks have bad feeder tanks.

I've seen feeder goldfish so crammed together it makes you wonder how they can move. Even in my favorite LFS, where the prices are high, but the quality is excellent... even there the feeder tanks are overcrowded and not always in the best of health. The rest of the tanks in the place are sparkling clean and healthy.

I wouldn't feed feeder fish, mostly because the fish that require live foods just plain don't interest me. Even if they did, I doubt I could stomach feeding them feeder fish. *shrugs*

Out of curiousity, why do some fish require live foods? I've seen four foot sharks chomp down once-live foods.

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

I'm against feeding live fish, but there are some fish that only eat live fish & so it's difficult to keep them on frozen & dried food.




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Member of the Malta Aquarist Society - 1970.
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Personally, it is against my religion to partake in such actions. However, I am not personally against it, though a regular diet of feeders (even "good" ones) is not as beneficial for preadators in the long run. All my preadators feed on frozen foods.

Then you are in a bad area, i've yet to see a shop here with poor feeders. Most of them don't even use tanks, but the large 100+ gallon farm troughs with canister filters.

At least you can mentnion there are SOME people who keep feeders like anything else... i wouldn't want that impression you have.

I like how you didn't even mentnion the good stores that keep their feeder tanks as immaculate as their regular tanks. Oh, and that feed them as well.

TIMMAYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lemme see. I have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 - fish shops within 6 miles of my home (edit to correct it to 10 miles). Not one of them has feeder fish tanks that even remotely look healthy. They are not only 100x overcrowded, but there is everything in them that I described above. I forgot to mention the body pieces I see floating around in everyone of them. I guess that explains some of the cloudy water, aside from overcrowding. Those fish are afterthoughts with respect to keeping them healthy and fed right. 8 out of 8 shops - that's 100% of my experiences. I have not looked at the feeder tank at Pruess Pets, whose fish are quarantined upon coming in and are the healthiest I've ever seen. Being that they are MAC certified and have marine biologists on hand, I would expect better of them so next time I make the 2.5 hour trip to Lansing, I'll check. That may make 1 out of 9 shops with good looking fish. Not good percentages.

All I can say is congratulations if you are working diligently enough to keep them well fed, generally free of disease and so on. You are in the minority.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 21-Mar-2005 11:04

i think the only way i would feed feeders, wold be to have a natural habitat for the preditor, and feed it the types of fish it would find in wthe wild, preferably u could have a single oscar in a 300 gallon tank, that looks very simmilar to where it would normally live. stock the tank with a fed breeding pairs of natural fish, wait till they start breeding like crazy, then introduce the oscar at a tiny size, like 1 inch, then the fish already living there can learn that this fish is a preditor, nd to be wary, with enough spance and hiding places, the schools of fish could like peacefully, and most will live, supliment with dead fish stuffed with nutritious pellits or vitamins, thats my kind of preditor/prey situation. but its not fair if u have a large oscar, and dump in 100 goldfish half the size of him, they just get ripped up and goldfish realy arnt the prey item for most fish anyway, all full of yuck and poop

I like how you didn't even mentnion the good stores that keep their feeder tanks as immaculate as their regular tanks. Oh, and that feed them as well.

Contrary to popular belief, not all LFS's just dump all their feeders into a giant vat of disease. Not all LFS's have festering piles of goldfish crammed ontop of one another just itching to give your fish a disease. I feel it's very unfair and rude to stereotype like that.

Granted, feeder fish aren't the greatest food for your fish, but c'mon.. be real.

I personally could not do it, but I don't object to those who choose to do it, especially in cases where a fish requires live food.

However, I would hope that people do not do this because they enjoy watching "the hunt". Since I was very young, I could never understand how people could enjoy watching anything suffer that is living, even if it is spending a day or two under high stress.

One of the most horrific fish tank scenes I saw was just recently in a fish store tank with small red-bellied pirahna. Staff had put goldfish in the tank that were too big to be killed in one bite. The result was at least 4 living fish, with the rear half of the torso bitten off swimming around in a panick. They had lost bodies up to their vital organs, but since they were not impacted, the fish continued to live. It was absolutely horrific. Also in the the tank were about as many dead fish with identical wounds - none had a bite into vital organs so the fish died a slow death. I might add that I find it strange that a fish can feel an itch from a parasite and feel compelled to scratch, but cannot feel pain. The proper course of action for the pirahnas and the feeder fish would have been to add fish that were smaller. For the size fish, guppies would have sufficed. Furthermore, I felt it was totally inappropriate to have this scene clearly visible in the presence of many young children in the store.

Setting aside emotional issues, we know that it is not necessary to feed Oscars live food. In fact, much has been published by experts to suggest that goldfish are the least nutritious thing that could be fed to them. If they are fed at all, it should be sparingly. The most beautifully colored, healthiest looking oscars I have ever seen were raised exclusively on high quality cichlid pellets and were capable of hand feeding. Also, one sided, fish-only diets are considered a contributor to HITH. It is thought that certain nutrients missing in the diet cause the demise of the facial structure causing the pits.

One last consideration I would ask people who do feed live food they purchase directly from the fish store: Stare into the feeder tank for just 5 full minutes. Study the condition of the fish. YOu will find fish with fuzz, parasites, lesions, emaciation and fish that whirl. It is a pathogen soup and it takes only a drop of that tank water to unleash illness or parasites in old Oscars tank. Once ich swarmers have been added to his tank via any water droplets from the original, and you put a feeder fish under additional stress in the presence of a predator, BANG! Old oscar has ich, along with the goldfish that brought it in. Also consider that fish in those tanks are barely fed, leading to less nutrition for your fish.

My suggestion is that if you must feed live fish, raise them yourself. Feed them highly nutritious food (garbage in; garbage out). And, make sure they can be killed quickly by putting the right size fish in the tank.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 21-Mar-2005 06:43

Last edited by Cory_Di at 21-Mar-2005 06:43

I think that if you must use feeders then feed them ones that you grew for that purpose. This is most cases eliminates worms and other parasites being passed on. You are also able to give a better balanced diet, more vitamins, and more minerals to both fish.

Bdadawg

if someone has gone to all the trouble of replicating a fish's natural habitat within the confines of an aquarium, what is the big deal about feeding the fish what it would consume if it were wild?

animals (including fish) do not live by the same moral standards as humans. some eat other animals as part of their diet- that is simply a fact of nature. in my opinion, depriving an animal under your stewardship of a food source that nature has adapted it to eat is cruel.

a properly setup/balanced fish tank is much more then a source of amusement to its owner. it is a miniature world in which its inhabitants live by their own codes of survival. a predator fish eating another fish is not horrific- it is simply a normal occurance in your miniature world.

and before the flaming starts- i am not preaching to, nor condemning someone for expressing their opinion. i am merely giving my answer to the question. i am in no way trying to slam aquaman18 for posting the question.

I have had several fw fish that were predatory. Some, like the needle nose gars, would not eat anything but live fish. I tried taunting them with frozen krill, but they simply would not eat, so to keep them alive and healthy I had to give them the live minnows. I was able to wean a pike, oscar and a particularly nasty green terror onto the frozen krill, though. It may be favoritism, but I think they were healthier, fatter, and showed better coloring on the frozen stuff. Cory addict was right in saying that some cannot survive without it, but most fish will learn to eat other foods if you can "trick" them into thinking it is live. After they get the taste for it, they will eat it every time.

I have heard and read that feeding live fish too often is bad since the scales build up in the predators digestive system. Not only that, but you run the risk of introducing diseases into your tank every time you add fish. Also, by using feeders you run the risk of introducing worms into your fishes digestive system.

My needlenose gars ate only live minnows. They were very healthy, and within a year grew too big for my 90 gal. So maybe it depends on the species of fish. My opinion? It is a fact of life for predators: kill and eat, or die.

Agreed with Cory Addict....we human consume other animals too.

Just think of it as in the nature, Oscars and other predators will eat other fish/animals anyway without human doing anything with them. Just that you don't see it often. It's just the nature about the food-chain.

So I personally will not criticise on the use of live feeders.

This is just an opinion question. I think that feeding fish such as Oscars, live fish is cruel. I would like to know what everyone else thinks about this topic. So the question is:

How do you feel about feeding your fish living fish???


Thanks to everyone who replies!

i understand in thw wild that is how they eat, but with captive bred fishes that i have, i do not feed my feed other fish.(or live n.e way). it is just something i will not do!

my johney darter will not eat anything that dosent move, but he eats flake, blood worms (live, frozen, freeze dried)tubifex worms, ect, but it just has to wiggle as it floats, otherwise, he wont eat i guess u get that with the F0 generation

I have nothing against it myself. I would feed feeder fish without many problems. I just wouldn't enjoy doing so. It's not that I feel it's wrong or against my religion, I just get a bad feeling from it. Not saying I wouldn't, but I'm not in a position to do so anyway becasue I don't keep such fish. I've fed all kinds of insects live before, and I might be able to do fish. But, once I get up to mice and other larger animals, I draw the line.

My opinion is that I don't necessarily like the idea of it. if I sit down and think about it like humanitarian like. But in order to understand, one must take himself out of the box and assess the situation.

People who breed fish, especially like fancy type fish like guppies or bettas must cull their fry. Why? Maybe because they have bent spine or some other deformation that they need to be put out of their misery for (bent spine=slow painful death in most cases IME).

So what are we to do with the cull? Put them down the garbage disposal? Flush them down the toilet? I sleep better at night knowing that my "cull" was eaten naturally then to think about how much it suffered and died of a chlorine overdose in the toilet.

So what is my opinion? My opinion is, that yes it is not a "fluffy" thought the idea of feeding a predatory fish live food, it is re-creating nature and humainly "disposing" of deformed fishies. I don't like the idea at all but I know it is for the best.

Yes I know that some fish are bred to be "feeder" fish, but if we are to create a "psuedo" environment for the fish, especially the "predatory fish" then we must do what we must do. We as the consumer although do have the responsibility of being wise in our selection of "LFS" for this reason. Their are alot of "LFS" out there who really don't give a you know what and are breeding diseased feeders or providing an environment that could cause disease infestations but there are many a "LFS" out there who care as much as we do in the hobby to take as much care of their feeders as they do a $30 fishy.

As always everyone is going to have a difference of opinion for one reason or another and all we can do is respect eachother as fish lovers regardless.

Good luck to you all!