FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Hello. I am very new to the whole fish hobby. My roommate and I recently purchased a 10 gallon tank for our dorm room. I was told that I could keep about 3 angelfish (babies) with 3 gouramis (also fairly small at the moment) and that this would be fine as the tank's limited space would not allow the fish to reach there potential size. Is this correct or do I have too many fish in my tank?

You have way too many fish in there & they're not going to stay alive long. The Angels need a minimum of 10 gal. each & also the Gourami.

In a 10 gal. tank you can keep a couple of small bodied Tetras, or something similar.

Sorry to disappoint you & Welcome to Fish Profiles.


http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/s8xi5heh/my_photos
http://www.geocities.com/s8xi5heh/classic_blue.html
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buzaqq/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/corydoras/
Member of the Malta Aquarist Society - 1970.
http://www.maltaaquarist.com

I'm afraid you were given bad information.

While it's true that fish kept in a tank too small for their adult size sometimes will not grow, what this typically means is painful stunting. Their organs grow misshapen, their eyes bulge, and they are quite literally breathing ammonia twenty-four hours a day.

I'm sorry you were misled. I'd return the fish to the store and try something a bit smaller - guppies are a popular choice, and you'll get to see them have babies, which people always enjoy. Small schooling fish are another good choice. Just get a few fish, and don't trust the salespeople no matter how knowledgeable they seem - better to come home and check the information than buy a fish that will only stunt and die if you bring it home.

-Molly
Visit shelldwellers.com!

Welcome to the fish hobby and to FP. Sorry that you were misled about what you could keep in a 10 gal tank, and thank you for being responsible enough to ask for help/advice. This site and others like it contain a wealth of information all for the reading/asking. Get ready this may be a lengthy post.
A general rule is 1 inch of fish per gallon of water, but there are other formulas on what you may have. Many variables also. The problem with angels is that they not only get too large for the 10 gal size, they also get too tall. They are a large fish and will badly stunt in too small a tank.
I did have a pair of dwarf gouramis in a 10 gal, and they did fairly well. Keep in mind though, that gouramis are a somewhat sensitive fish that REQUIRE pristine water conditions. (most fish diseases/maladies can be traced back to poor water quality). The thing about 10 gallon tanks is that the smaller the tank the easier it is to spike ammonia, nitrates, etc that may cause the fish harm.
My two developed dropsy, and then fungal fin rot due to poor water conditions despite a rigorous water maintenance schdule. I moved them into a 29 gal and they are flourishing there.
Best to start with a few smaller, HARDIER fish for a 10 gal tank. Guppies are good, harlequin rasboras, something that stays small so you can put more in there. But hardy. People like tetras but they are not hardy enough to cycle tanks with.
Now let's talk about cycling the tank. Fish produce waste (poo, uneaten food, etc) which produces ammonia. Bacteria then grows and eats the ammonia producing nitrites. Still more bacteria grows to convert nitrite to nitrate. Ammonia, nitrite and nitrate are all harmful to fish. Putting a few hardy fish in the tank starts this process (which can also be done fishless). This process, without help from products like stress zyme, cycle, bio spira etc, may tank many weeks. My 29 gal tank took 5 weeks to cycle. This cycling process is hard on fish, which is why it's best done with a few hardy fish that can take the stress. Testing the water often (daily) will tell you what's going on, when the ammonia spikes, when nitrates spike and when the nitrates start going up and the nitrites start dropping. A good test kit is recommended here, like the aquarium pharmaceuticals master freshwater test kit.
OK now that the tank is cycled lets talk maintenance. Weekly or twice weekly water changes will keep the nitrates in check, you want them below about 20 ppm. When you do water changes also vacuum the gravel to remove any ditrius (uneaten food, gunk in the gravel etc. There's more there than you'll think). Vacuum a third of the gravel at each water change (the beneficial bacteria we talked about earlier live in the gravel, filter media, etc). Monthly maintenance of the filter is needed too, change/clean the media, cleaning the tubes and impeller will help keep the filter working well.
Daily (at feeding time) check the temperature, make sure the heater, filter, air pump if you've got one is working properly. Also check the fish, count them to make sure they're all counted for, and to check their general health.
Also, make sure you add a water conditioner, to remove any chlorine/chloramine in your water. Products like stress coat will do this.
This post was not intended to scare you off of the hobby but to enlighten you to the responsibilities included. Again, welcome to the hobby and to Fish Profiles and good luck with your tank.

Welcome to FP . As the others said, the angels and gouramies are not a good choice. In a 10g you could keep a few female bettas or a school of tetras. Look under the profiles on this site to see what you would like.

if u can only have a ten gallon in ur room, then u cant get fishes that u know will grow past a ten gallon.

first off, that tank is overstocked with gouramies and angels.

second, angels need a tall tank to develop, so a ten is not going to be enough.

third, it is considered dwarfing ur fish, not at all good.]:| i am not an expert on this topic, but u need to re-stock ur tank a get fishes that are better off in a ten gallon. and please do NOT get a betta, u can try returning all of those fish, and get white cloud minnows, or small tetras, such as neons.

please be responsible in stocking ur tank, and remember that since u are new to the hobby please take our advice.

Okay. How about 1 angelfish (my room mate is very set on this) and one red/blue paradise? There are regular angelfish and dwarf angelfish, correct? How big do the so-called dwarfs get to be? Also, does anyone know if a paradise is a species of gourami? This is what I was told at PetsMart but I've read differently online. And how do small tiger barbs get along with these two types of fish? Thanks everyone for your helpful responses!!

The only "dwarf" angelfish are saltwater, I'm afraid. Freshwater angelfish are all essentially the same - not just big fish, but big territorial fish. There's really no way to house one in a 10, I'm sorry.

The Paradise fish is fine. It's a labyrinth fish and in the same family as gouramis, but isn't usually considered to be one.

Small tiger barbs grow up to be large tiger barbs; moreover, both young and old, they're devious fin nippers and would tear both species to shreds. Sorry again.

You might want to browse the Profile section here for small (1-2" Characins (tetras), particularly. And don't forget guppies! They're a great choice.

-Molly
Visit shelldwellers.com!

Angelfish need at absolute minimum a 20g TALL tank but I would never put one in less than a 29g. 1 paradish fish might work but paradise fish can be quite agressive as well as active and would not appreciate tank mates in a 10g. That's another fish I'd put in a bigger tank than the minimum since they act quite a bit differently when moved to a 20 or 29g from a 10g. Tiger barbs are very bad fin nippers and need to be in with other fast swimming active fish with short fins.

No offense to any one who likes petsmart but never listen to petsmart employees always check first in fact I use that rule for any info im given as I have learned the hard way that people arent always right.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

tiger barbs are fin nippers so ur angels wont make it anyway, doesn't matter if u have 3 or 1, the angels must go.

paradice fish, are members of the labyrith group which means they breathe air, so yes they are related to gouramies, and often sold under paradice gourami.


u know the answers u are going to get aren't the answers u want always, so please take our advice and remove the angels.


Last edited by bettachris at 03-Sep-2005 18:33

Kowar,
First of all I would like commend you on coming
here for advice. Way to go! Its a great way to find out
what you need to know, and this is the best fish forum
out there!
Some info on Angelfish for you:
Angelfish are a South American Cichlid.
They are semi-aggressive and require pristine
water conditions to live to maturity (espescially
small baby angels)
Angelfish grow to be a minimum of 8 inches from snout
to base of tail (doesnt include tail), and can grow
to be as much as 14-16++ inches tall from top of top fin
to bottom of bottom fin. An Angelfish requires
as a base tank 25Gallons. Its not the length of the tank
that really matters, its the height. Angelfish should not be kept in a tank less than 18 inches tall, and a 25g tall tank is sufficient to keep one, or a breeding pair.
Angelfish can live to be well into their late teens and
20's if cared for properly. They are highly intelligent fish and will suffer greatly if mistreated.

As for your Gouramis' I have no idea what type you have,
but i suspect that they sold you either Blue, Gold, or Cosby Gouramis (opaline). These are also a very large
fish, growing to 6-8 inches, and like a siamese fighting fish, Gourami Males will KILL other Gourami Males. 2 males should not be kept together.

There are many many fish you can keep in a 10g tank.
A Paradise Fish would be fine in a 10g tank, so long
as you dont keep 2 males together. You could keep some
small (1 inch or less) fish with your paradise, such as
tetras, rasboras, white cloud minnows, threadfin rainbowfish, platies, guppies, pencilfish etc.

Ask you roomate, what does he want, a live, happy, healthy, beautiful tank that requires very little maintenance, or a tank with dead or sick fish that require
constant medication and many hours of work per week just to keep the fish swimming? If he wants live happy fish, then the angelfish has to go.
Find a petstore that has large angels and take him there. Show him how big they get and then compare that with a 10g tank right in the store. Tell him Angelfish live to be 15-20 years old. Tell him it is a lifelong committment, and that if he wants to keep his angel, he needs to get a 25g or larger tank that is a minimum of 18 inches tall. Show him such a tank.
By the way, I got my 25g tall tank with filter, hood, net, food, and other accessories for 88.88 Canadian, or around 65.00 dollars US (if you are american).
As these tanks are tall rather than long, they fit in a much smaller space.
I hope this will help you some. If you cannot find a fish store with big angels, get out a ruler and put it against the tank and show him how big an 8 inch wide and 16 inch tall angel is, then ask him if he would put a fish that big in the tank. If his answer is no, then the Angel has to go.


Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
http://games.atari.com
Http://www.myleague.com/yahtgames

No matter what that tank is way too small for an angel. They grow quickly, and if you put a small on e in on the plan you were going to get rid of it when it was too big, then you would be only keeping it a couple of weeks. You would be wasting your money getting Angels and Gouramis. Some pet stores will sell you anything.

I would suggest a small school of neon tetras, they are a very pretty small peaceful fish. Also maybe a small bristlenose. Or you could go for some fancy guppies if that was more your style. But there is no way you are going to get an angel to live in that tank.

You could maybe try a dwarf neon gourami but eve then you are pushing it in my opinion.

You could go with some small livebearers and some cory's that would be a nice looking tank assuming the livebeares dont have a breeding frenzy. Unless your doing an all neon tank I wouldn't get neon's as they have neon tetra disease.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons