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Where do the angelfish fit in?

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Well the amazon is warmer because it is located below the equator and its dense rainforests trap the heat. Think of it as a humid, wet desert. With all that sun, heat, and humidity, i don't think its any surprise that the water can heat up to the 80's. Is the water always that hot? Maybe not. But i wouldnt be surprised if it did. And im sure Amazonian fish are able to handle it. If they werent, you'd have a river of dead fish. ='

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Yes Mermaiden,
Just the fish that I keep, in the wild all come from
temperatures of 78F or higher.
Amazonian fish.
In fact I have heard that my Discus even prefer warmer water than that, and so do Angels apparently, up to like 86F or something

I see what you mean. Which brings up an issue I've often wondered about. Please know that I am not arguing or meaning anything offensive by this. I am genuinely puzzled by this issue and have been for years.

How can a flowing body of water fed by Mountain streams and artesian wells fed by ground water out of those same mountains, be that warm?

Maybe I'm just too used to our Ground Water here in the Central US and its temp or the Mountain streams I've played in further West? 50 degree's and lower is common for ground water temps.

I just can't get how the Amazon could be such warm water two or more feet below the surface? You know what I'm saying? Heck, I've waded in Lake water in Florida that made you grab your breath from the chill when you first stepped in. How could the Amazon be 80 or more? I need some geography and whatever other types of lessons would assuage my curiosity!

Thanks a bunch for your input.
Mermaiden

Yes Mermaiden,
Just the fish that I keep, in the wild all come from
temperatures of 78F or higher.
Amazonian fish.
In fact I have heard that my Discus even prefer warmer water than that, and so do Angels apparently, up to like 86F or something.


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I'm happy for you. Is 43 years long enough to gain me any credability for what works for my fish in my part of the universe, in my tanks?

Mermaid

the tank is getting up to 80 during the day, which is too warm for any fish for any length of time

HAHA I guess my tanks are all too hot then,
I have been keeping mine at the following temps for a
very very long time:
10G 80F
25G 80F
75G 82F.


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Well, Thank you for all of the replies! I changed my mind on adding some of the fish I mentioned earlier.

I now have these fish in the new 55.

9 inch common plec named Gibby.
6? inch Oranda named Dahl, thats without counting his tail.
2 inch Oranda no name yet " "
2 inche Oranda " " " " "
Very large Veil Angel
Very large Gold Angel
3 Golf ball sized Apple Snails and 5 pond snails, for waste patrol.

The tank will be fully planted for nitrate use between water changes but open space will be prioritised so that Gibby can travel freely.

They have tons of room and look very happy at this time.

Temp wise I'm not running the heater at all as its been very hot here and although I have central air the tank is getting up to 80 during the day, which is too warm for any fish for any length of time. Bacteria love that heat! I like to run all of my tanks and tubs at 76 degrees.

As for the Angel/Oranda mix, thats been interesting to say the least! Dahl took a liking to my large Gold Angel and started pushing in between it and the Veil to split them up every pass he made. It was too funny! He thinks that gold Angel is foxy! The addition of the two baby Oranda's took his simple little mind off of the Angel now and everybodies happy.

I am shopping for a cheap used 120 gallon or larger so these guys will have more room to grow but they are swimming in this tank for now! LOL

Thanks for listening!

Mermaiden

aren't going to fight? I mean I have read some article about angel fish not long ago(cant remember where) said they could get along with some peaceful cichild with out much problem but not with fish type like gold fish. Gold fish tend to be too dump to run away from attack and they r too slow . Once I have seem a picture of a gold fish lose its eyes to some other aggresive fish the shark I think.

I really think Angels should be kept warmer than 75F.
I keep my angels at a steady 80F.
I think they should be kept around 78F for health.
I have known of Orandas kept in this warm of temperature.
I would get rid of the common pleco though. He will easily reach 16 inches.


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Some species of common stay small however the odds are they won't. The petstores first off take the smallest possible size of a common and then they claim fish will only grow to the size of their tank. Also many I frequent don't supplement the plecos diet appropriately which causes them to live half starved and not grow to their full size. All of those reasons also mean the petstore workers will tell the lifespan of plecos is about half what they can actually reach. The same holds true for goldfish. With proper care all these fish should live well beyond what most petstore employees have told me and reach sizes nearly twice or sometimes even 3 times what they claim.
The main problem between angelfish and goldfish is the temperature. Angelfish like it hot. Up in the 80sF. Goldfish are coldwater fish prefering temps down around 70. Either fish or both are going to be stressed no matter what you do. The second problem is 3 goldfish along with all those others don't really fit in that tank. Yes they will live but they are likely going to be stunted and live shorter lives which follows the points made by petstore employees. Yea you can put a pleco or goldfish in a small tank and it will live quite a while with good maintenance but it won't be nearly as healthy or live as long. You have 2 fairly good sized tanks. I think you should run 1 as a coldwater tank and 1 as a heated tank but really you need larger tanks for all those fish to be kept at their best.

Not every LFS worker knows that the common plec grows that big. Some think fish only grow to size of the tank their in and others just dont care. However, that isnt to say there arent LFS workers who dont know their stuff, but they seem to be the minority ='

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If you sing to me in French.

I dont understand why petsotres make pelecos look like they can fith in small tanks when the out grow a 200 gallon, they really dont make sense

10gallon: 8neons 5gallon: 1betta
1oto
2platys

"Thank you Lindy, I much prefer your tone to "YOU CAN"T DO THAT!" "

No one said "YOU CANT DO THAT!". They said "You shouldnt do that." Fishprofiles is, obviously, made up of people who love fish. If your tank is overstocked, we will say something (nicely of course), because we want your pets to be healthy.

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

Thank you Lindy, I much prefer your tone to "YOU CAN"T DO THAT!"

As for the Goldfish with tropicals, it depends on the species of both. These are Oranda's so they don't mind a little bit warmer water than comets and my tropicals are all US raised fish that are generations into hardy.

I was hoping there were some members that had some of the tanks of Oranda/Angels I've seen such lovely pictures of. I would like to know their params and schedule. Guess I'll have to live and learn.

Thank you all for your time. This looks like a super nice board.
Mermaid

Hi everyone, I have to see what you all think of my plan. I have a new 55 gallon tank I'm just setting up.

I'm thinking about moving my 9 inche common plec, 2 female and 1 male Bristlenoses, one 6 inch oranda, Several juvy BN's and 2 new baby Oranda's that arent here yet, into the new 55. I will run it without heat as its on the dividing counter of the kitchen/dining room and stays warm enough for those fish.

Do you think this will work? The new Oranda's will be less than 1/2 Dolly's size, will that work? (Dolly-large Oranda)

Thank you for your time!

Maiden

i think that tank would be full to bursting with that many fish

55gal. is too small for all those fish (the common Pleco will get bigger) & are you going to add an Angelfish or not?.


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I'm sorry! The Angelfish is a small Veil I just received for my Birthday and it will be the only Angel in that tank. My other Angels are very large so he/she can't go in with them yet. So.....this tank will hold-

1 9inch common pleco
3 Adult BN's plus varying juvies off and on.
3 Oranda Goldfish
1 Small Veil Angel

The tank will be heavily filtered and planted. I have a large Hob for it, a Cycled sponge filter for an 80 gallon tank and a Cascade Canister for 120 gallon tanks.

Mermaiden

I would not mix the goldfish with the other fish, and the common pleco will grow too large for a 55 gallon.

1 9inch common pleco
3 Adult BN's plus varying juvies off and on.
3 Oranda Goldfish
1 Small Veil Angel

This will never work as
3oranda goldfish with nothing else need a 120gal
common pleco will need a 200+gal tank
3 adult bns would work in a 555gal but would add alot to the bio load.
Angel fish will not get enough heat and will need a completely different diet to the other fish in the tank.

How about trying something like this
3 adult bns
1 oranda
8 cherry barbs (to add some activity)

(sorry for basically copying your tank babel)


Alex


Last edited by Mr Moosegills at 10-Jun-2005 05:10

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