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Cali, you're reading WAY too much into this . I'm not saying I'm buying pandas, I'm just using them as an example of a typical fish tank stock. I thought that using commonly kept fish would help to make my question easier to understand. And I am well aware that a 40L holds more. This is a hypothetical thred. I'm just using 20 and 40 gallon tanks as examples because many people have them. I thougth that would make the question easier to understand than if I asked about a 150 and a 180.

And wouldn't bubbles and water agetation make up for the lack fo surface area?

So, back to my origional question:
Using cookie-cutter examples:
10 gallon: 1 school of 6 small fish
20 gallon: 3 schools of 6 small fish
40 gallon: __ schools of 6 small fish

Would a 40 gallon actually hold more? Or would it just allow me to see top-dewllers and bottom-dwellers better?

Last edited by djtj at 06-Jun-2005 00:36

Is height completely useless?

Yes. Completely overrated. I am 5ft 2. That is more than sufficient.

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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

I like, except, could I drop 2 of the festies and get a nice school of bleeding heart or black phantom tetras?
I'm going to start a seperate stocking thred because this thred will probably only attract the attention fo people wanting to answer my height question, I'll link you.

Leaf fish are mid to bottom dwelling species, and are awesome. They don't move much; rather, they hover head down, making them GREAT for deep tanks. Festivum are relatively top dwelling fish, so you could keep both. Schoolers (if you want to stay in the South American theme)are really limited to only a few species, namely fish that won't fit inside the leaf fish, but are not fiesty enough to spook it. I would go with hatchets. That leaves you with the rams on the bottom.

So:
3 festivums
1 leaf fish
5 hatchets
2 rams


Sounds like an interesting tank.



Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 05-Jun-2005 21:58

Hi DJ,
well max size of a fish in a tall tank would depend upon the shape of the fish.
A long fish such as a snakeskin gourami (8 inches) would not fair well in a shorter taller tank, but a Discus or Angelfish (8 inches as well), would do extremely well in a shorter taller tank. Same for fish such as silver dollars and mono sebae (though these would require a larger tank).

I think a pair of Angels and a pair of Rams, even Bolivians, would do quite well together in your size tank.
Vice versa, a pair of Discus would also do quite well with rams if you were interested in a breeding pair. I know Angels and Discus are schooling fish, but in my experience they do very very well in pairs as long as the pair get along well! (such as breeders).

I think you could probably do 1 pair Angels (or Discus if you would like to try they are very cool fish), and a pair of Gold/or Blue/ or Bolivian rams would be fine, with a school of small fish that enjoy swimming at all levels, or top-mid.

Might I suggest a school of 6 fish of something like:
Hatchets (marble or silver) (topwater)
Rummynose Tetra (midwater)
Glowlight Tetra or Lemon Tetra (almost all levels except very top third.
Black Neons (mid)
White Cloud Mountain Minnow (top)
Danio (zebra, leopard, albino, blue, etc)(top mostly but not always)
I think that would be appropriate stocking, allowing for the tank to appear both well stocked, but with room, and would give you enjoyment at all levels of the tank.



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I wouldn't try to stick more schooling fish that use the same level in a tank that only has more height. Height is useful for putting fish that use different levels together not adding more fish that occupy the same level in a tank. The reason I am only getting a 90g instead of a 110 is because the extra 20g of height is useless to me. I already know I'm putting in mostly mid and bottom level swimming fish so I saw no point in the extra cost for height that wouldn't benefit the fish much if at all.

Like my examples, I was thinking on focusing on schooling fish with a pair of rams and a centerpiece fish as the center. For center, I'm thinking of a festivum or a leaf fish, nothing that grows more than 4 inches. I was considering a pair of angels, but do you think a pair of angels and a pair of rams is overkill for a 40 gallon?

And I think I get the drift of what you are saying. A 40H can hold more than a 20L, but only if you are talking about smaller fish like tetras that occupy all levels. In the case of big fish like gouramis, the tanks are both equal. The max. size fish you can have in a 20L is about 5 inches and the same goes for a 40H. Am I correct?

DJ,
I have also found that with tall tanks, it is better to go by "sight stocking" rather than inches.
A tall tank requires a different type of stocking than traditional short long tanks, and this can make them seem more of a challenge.
For example: In my 25g tall tank at one point when it was the "Guppy Motel 6", had literally 150 guppies of all ages in it (mostly young fry less than 1 inch), and it never seemed full. However, now it is occupied by 2 breeding angels, 4 buenos aires tetra, and 9 cory aenus, and it seems really full!
So it really depends on the type of fish you get, how it will look. If you choose fish like tetras for example, that will occupy all water levels at any time, the tank is apt to look more empty, than if you were to stock it with fish that primarily stick to one level in the tank,
say like Hatchets or African Butterflies on top, Rummynose in Center, and Rams at the bottom.
Do you see what I am saying? I am not sure if I am making sense, but I hope you gather what I mean.
Also, I feel that larger fish, such as a 4 inch pearl gourami, seems to command more attention to site than 4 inch long rummynose tetras, not that the pearl gourami necessarily requires more space than 4 rummynose, just that it seems to occupy much more space than if that space was occupied by many small fish. So it really just depends.
Did you have any ideas for stocking your tank?


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Good point. I just got lost in all this surface area talk.
I guess common sense comes in handy.

The more your gallonage, obviously the greater your stocking possibilities. Of course it would hold more fish.

Just wondering.

Well the more water the better in the long run even if the fish arent using it, i mean it wont get as dirty as fast.

The thing about the tall tanks, is that you can place multiple level fishes in the same tanks. With the newer type filters with biowheels and such, there is no longer the same worry about the biological problems and aeriation problems of the past. The aeriation problems are solved, and you can definitely place the hatchet fish in tanks with lower level type fishes in the bottom.

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There is always a bigger fish...

I'd be wary of putting Panda Corys in a tank that's too deep. Jessnick had issues here with Pandas in a tall aquarium that was chosen to be tall to make life confortable for Angel Fishes. Pandas prefer shallower aquaria.

The surface area governs the rate of oxygen exchange between the water and the atmosphere. A 20 long and a 40 tall will have the same effective exchange rate, all other factors (such as filtration flow rates) being constant. The 40 long will hold more oxygen because there's a greater volume of water, but if too many fish are put into that volume, they'll produce carbon dioxide at a rate that exceeds the gas exchange rate at the surface, with the less than delightful results that follow from this.

Unless you have tall fishes such as Angel Fishes or Discus that need the depth, you're better looking out for a 40 long instead of a 40 tall. A 40 long will have twice the surface area (using your figures above) and will have a considerably greater fish holding capacity. Plus, the furnishing options for a 40 long will be greater, because there'll be a greater area of bottom substrate to furnish. You'll be able to mix plant thickets and open spaces with much greater flexibility, resulting, in time, in a truly breathtaking underwater vista. However, as I keep telling people here, this requires patience and application!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I don't think you quite understood what I was asking, Frank. I know tall tank have less surfac area, etc. What I was asking is, if I have a 20 gallon long (30"x12" and a 40 gallon tall (also 30"x12", if the 40 would hold more fish. I know technically they have the same surface area, but I was asking if the height made any difference. Old timer and Shini hit the nail on the head by saying that it allowed fish that live on different levels to co-exist better.

Example:
In a 20 gallon, I could have 3 schools of 6 small fish and 2 larger fish (say 6 neons, 6 bloodfins, and 6 panda cories with 2 rams). If I got a 40, could I add a school of 6 hatchet fish becase ther is more of a top-dwelling level?

Last edited by djtj at 04-Jun-2005 12:46

Hi,
Tall tanks used to be called "show tanks" and were used
by folks to "show" their prized fish for the judges.

The idea was to restrict their movements to mainly up and
down swimming with little left and right movement. That
way the judges did not have to shift along a 3 foot tank
(for instance) trying to judge a skittish fish. Instead
they could stand in one spot and observe the fish.

Later, the tall tanks became more of a decorative thing
for the living room or den, and could sit on an end table
or such.

Actually the long, or "breeder tanks," are the best.
The reason is the larger surface area (length times
width) that the tank provides.
A "tall" tank of any kind has a smaller surface area
than a "long" tank of the same capacity. The larger
surface area facilitates the exchange of gasses between
the atmosphere and the water.
The larger the surface area, the more the exchange,
and - the more fish you can keep in the tank.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

the PRESSURE exerted on a pane of glass in an aquarium = the hight myltiplied by the density of the liquid and the FORCE exerted (don't confuse force&amp; pressure. is the one that counts in the long run) is the pressure myltiplied buy the length of the tank so the depth water behinde a particular pane of glass does not effect it so in a tall tank that is long the FORCE of the water acting on the front pane would be enormous and therefore would riquire thick glass dpending the dimentions

ok, that exactly what I was thinking. I wanted to get something with the footprint of a 20L but taller so I could see it better. I didn't know if a 29 or 37 or 40 gallon tanks held more.

Last edited by djtj at 02-Jun-2005 20:12