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Animal control could issue the permits. My idea though was to let animal control see the enclosure for the fish and then say if its suitable then issue the permit. If people can be arrested for dog and horse abuse then why not large fish.

Let's see, how many new animal control officers do you think this would take? With an annual income of approximately $25,000 to $30,000, benefits on top of that, and that they can't even control the dogs and cats that run loose. I don't know about you, but I'm not willing to pay the tax cost of this because of a few stupid people who don't properly research their purchases.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Well also most people who dip fish are doing it part time while going through school or something like that and dont know anything about the hobby anyway, but the mgrs and owners of these places need to train a little better and maybe just put a red sticker for instance on the tanks of these petictular fish, so when the employee dips them they can give the buyer a little talk about how unless they have a huge tank and are experienced they should buy somthing else.

[link=http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Labyrinth%20Lounge/58510.html?200504270102]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Labyrinth%20Lounge/58510.html?200504270102" style="COLOR: #800080[/link]

Should we punish people who buy these too (IMO, YES-but that's not the point) Unfortunately, we live in a world of people who don't take the time to learn about the hobby, but merely think of fish as "cool"

Personally, I think a better solution than to send animal control to people's houses or bill people for permits is to hand out Fish Profiles flyers at every LFS

some new fish keepers will do things like that, but don't punish the others. also there might be drawbacks, i know from my point that if i need a permit to have fish, or large fish i will defintely get out the the hobby.

I worked in a large fish store in south jersey that had like 300+ tanks and you would be suprised how stupid people are. Alot of people, id say the ave person with a fish tank has a 20 gal, with either way too many fish in it, or large fish like 4 oscars, and hardly ever does a water change. If i had to guess id say that 8 out of ten fish sold die an earlie death. Thats the reason i quit working there too, caase i was tired to selling an oscar to a guy with a 40 gal who already has it full of cichlids. I think it all stems down to the fact that most people dont care and arent willing to invest the time it takes to really care for a tank like they should, cause of the expense and time it takes.

So you would make those that do take care of their fish properly incur the additional expense of a license, greenm? It doesn't seem like we should punish those that do the right thing because some people refuse to. Also, like I said, it's IS common perception amongst the public that fish aren't the same as a cat, dog, gerbil, etc. If you say a pet is a pet...then does that mean we should fine someone for abusing their pet grasshopper? Sorry, but it doesn't make much sense...to me anyways.

-Keith#2

http://www.ozarkgames.com

how about making it harder to obtain these large fish. Say make the people have to ask for the fish.

One can cover fish in animal neglect and cruelty laws without requiring a license.

A license is a nice idea but has, I'm afraid, pretty serious drawbacks.

-Molly
Visit shelldwellers.com!

there shouldn't be any permit, only because, as we all know that there are " dumb " fish owners that just don't know any better, but there are other fish keepers that do all right with these fish, i have a large clown knife and it does just fine, but if anything the lfs should do a better job of tell the buyer(for only the bad stores), but there should bee no restickiton on keeping any fish.

Ok there has been many discussions about this but do you think that large fish such as clown knives, pacus, arowanas, and redtail catfish should be sold without permits. I think that animal control should issue permits when they see a properly sized enclosure for the fish. Kind of like a fish inspector.

If just getting a license to have a fish is a burden then the person needs to reconsider if they really want it. Also a pet is a pet. Even if I can't pet it that doesn't mean that it gives me the right to neglect the fish and keep it in unsuitable conditions.

The difference between keeping a horse, dog, cat, or goat for a pet; is that if the power goes out they don't usually drop dead. What it comes down to is the public perception that fish are not the same as other pets.

If I sat down to a nice dinner of 'dog', it would be perfectly alright in Korea; try that here and they would most likely fine you for it. But try sitting down with a nice juicy Cheeseburger(beef)in India....might not be in your best interest.

The other thing is that many people would find the additional cost of a license a burden(like buying a passport will be). If you want to change things to require a license for large fish, perhaps you could start up a lobbying group in the local or State government.

My 2 cents.

-Keith#2

http://www.ozarkgames.com

Animal control could issue the permits. My idea though was to let animal control see the enclosure for the fish and then say if its suitable then issue the permit. If people can be arrested for dog and horse abuse then why not large fish.

NOOOO! I agree that there is a problem with XL fish being kept improperly, but licensing is not the way to go about it. Having a driver's license doesn't keep people from driving irresponsibly. It does not keep inattentive parents from allowing their children to drown in their backyard pools. It doesn’t keep horses out of Sheriff Joe’s livestock hospital because their owners have abused them. A license is merely a thinly veiled tax cooked up by money hungry politicians.
And who would you have issue and police this license?
Knock, knock.
“Yes?”
“It's the Fish Police. We've got a report that you've bought an arrowana, but only have a 55 gallon tank. I'm sorry, but we are going to have to take you down to the station.” Big brother is invading my privacy more that enough already.
I think education is key to keeping special needs animals of all sorts out of the hands off people who cannot take care of them. Educate salespersons on what they are selling. Train them to ask pointed questions to probe a customer’s qualifications. And don’t be afraid to tell a customer no!

I think something should be done to limit the sale of many of the monsters. Having owned pacu and gone to great lengths to keep them happy, I have refused many customers who wanted to buy a large growing fish. For most, simply saying it will grow very large and eat all your other fish was enough to disuade them.

a LFS by me trys to be very carefull about who they are selling their fish to. Always asking what size tank and stuff... But I am sure some slip out and such.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

large fish, as well as other large pets, should undoubtly require a permit to keep. as a former pet store employee, i've seen way too many irresponsible pet owners take home that adorable little clown knife fish only to return him or flush him alive because he devoured all the neon tetras the pet owner previously had. Large fish have specific requirements and it IRKS me when consumers purchase large pets and don't provide them with all they need to thrive by either releasing them into local water systems, or by keeping them in small, crowded tanks for the rest of their lives.

i understand that it's not all the pet parent's fault, being that the pet store employees also has a right to see that their pets go to good homes, BUT there is only so much GOOD pet store employees can do.