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Hi ive just got a new Rena XP3 for my 55 uk gallon tank. Problem is my other filter failed as some of you may have read so the new filter is cycleing with most of my fish in. Ive managed to save my rams and angel fish and have a friend who will take my keyholes off me for a while to look after them. But i cant catch them.

Now the new filter went in on wednesday night and i added bactozyme and that did nothing really. I've added something else that a really good lfs gave me though i cant rememeber the name. It's a powder that i add to the water and need to add a second dose tomorow night. Shortly after that i started to get high levels of Nitrites rather than just high Ammonia.

My Ammonia reading is off the scale literaly abouve 8.0ppm its so dark its black but when the tube is tilted the liquid is blue, the nitrite is about 5. I did a water change this afternoon around 80% and that got the Ammonia down around 8.0ppm and the nitrite dropped to 1.0ppm.

Now for the wierd thing! My fish are fine totaly fine! its been FIVE days in highly toxic water and no one is showing any symptoms of anything. When my old filter started to fail and i got low readings of ammonia the cory cats went really really pale and the keyholes went dark brown which is natural when stressed but this went right away when the ammolock was put in but now the water is about 5 times as toxic and they are not doing any of this ive reduced feeding to one small meal every other day and they all eat it all.

So what im asking is does anyone know any way that i can cycle a large external filter fast or any products that will really help or any thing you can think i can do to help save my fish. And can you think of any reason for how my fish are surviving? And also i know its awful to think of but how long do you think they can last for?

And lastly do you think i will be helping or hindering the filter and fish by doing water change more than one a week?

I think that you need to worry about the fish first and the cycle bacteria second. For example, I keep a bottle of ammolock handy for just such an occation. The thing is, once you add that then your ammonia test kits will be useless as they can't tell the ammonia from after product of ammolock.

Another tool is fresh water. I would not go 6 weeks without a water change in hopes of growing bacteria and end up with no fish. Their gills will be shot. So I'm going to vote for water changes.

I wonder why (or if) you threw out the old bacteria. You could have squeezed the sponge into your water. Better yet you could leave that sponge in the tank. Not pretty but better than fish dying.

A good way to cycle really fast is just borrow a filter from another tank, and put it in yours. The bacteria is the brown pond scum growing on the sponge and in the tubes and around the impeller. That is what you need--minus any other problems your friends tank may have. Good luck. I hope someone pipes up with a PLAN for your next month.

I wonder if there is a way to use ph to change the ratio of the kinds of ammonia in the water. You should post your PH. I will have to look it up but I think ammonia in high or low ph is safer and that might be happening. Although remember changing ph is deadly if done quickly.

I've cycled tanks while doing water changes and had no problem. Just leave the pond scum alone. Start aging water. Lots of it, in buckets not washed with detergent. I mean, you can keep fish with no filter at all if you change the water enough without shocking the fish. Don't do 100% changes though. I think 50% per day might be the maximum, although my crab and feeder-guppie fry have been getting 75% weekly changes. It depends how much you know you fed them, and well the crab is eating and growing like crazy. I am scared for your tank.

I've added something else that a really good lfs gave me though i cant rememeber the name.

By ammonia readings like you have, Im guessing what the LFS gave you is something to lock up or detoxify ammonia. What happens when you use these products is they often mess up your test results, so you may have much higher or much lower ammonia than what you think.
Myself, I would Not recommend using any products like zeolite, ammo-lock, or anything like that during a cycle, it can set back your cycling time.

The only product that is 100% proven to jump start and cycle a tank is BioSpira. It comes in the refrigerator section of your fish store (if they carry it).
It is actually live bacteria, unlike other products that use "dormant bacteria" or "enzymes that jump start bacteria growth".
I have "heard" of people having great results with a product called Stability by Seachem, but have not used it myself and do not know for sure what it is about, but 90% of the members of my aquarium club swear by it when cycling tanks.

Your fish are surviving likely because they are tough hardy adult fish.
Now, heres my suggestion and I agree 100% with pizpot.
Dont worry about the bacteria in the filter. Worry about the fish. The bacteria will colonize the filter rapidly and go on its own.
Start doing water changes every 2nd or 3rd day of 40%. Do not vacuum the gravel, just remove water.
This will keep ammonia low but allow the cycle of the filter to continue.
Do NOT Use any products like ammo-lock or any "powders". Who knows what youre putting in your tank. I wouldnt do it.
Stick with your water conditioner (Prime would be my #1 choice over all others), and keep up the water changes.
You will then not need to remove any of your fish.
You in fact want your fish to remain in there if possible, to allow the bacteria in your filter to reach the point of being able to keep up with your bioload.
If you just remove a bunch of fish, then pop them all back in once the filter cycles, you will have a mini-cycle again.

If you keep up with water changes, your cycle of the filter will progress nicely and should be fully cycled within about 1 months time.
Adding excess products will slow or hinder the cycle.
Only thing that can help is Biospira or maybe seachems stability.
I wouldnt add anything other than that and your water conditioner.
After 4-5 water changes, you will probably find your test works right again, as you will have removing whatever the powder stuff is.
Also, if you dont have aeration, add some. NitrItes rob the blood of oxygen, so its always helpful to add extra aeration (even if its a bigger bubble stone) to the tank during any cycling processes.
Fast growing live plants will eat up ammonia too,
like hornwort, ambulia, cabomba, or the like.
Marimo balls are also great "ammonia sponges".

Good luck.


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My ammolock is one of the first things I ever bought for my fish, and I have never used it. The situation that would cause ME to use it would be an emergency and no other way to solve the problem. Like if I was going out of town after a filter crash, where I could not be to manage things.

the powder stuff i have is called Aquamarine ammonia/nitrite eliminator biological filtration bacteria sorry for not saying earlier.
I didnt keep the old filter as it was doing no good my fish were surviving on ammo lock and airation the fluval filter bacteria just died for no reason at all the filter still worked so i used it for airation but it was two weeks and things were getting worse so i did all i could do and get this filter tomorow night i am going to look for an lfs that will sell me some media with bacteria on. I think i know where i can get some from.
Since i last used ammo lock i have done three water changes
I would never dream of going 6 weeks without a water change! i do them weekly of 30% post filter crash.
also for the water conditioner i use API stress zyme. they are getting fed once every two days
The ph is 7.8.
I have a fair few plants that are growing like crazy not entirely sure of what they are called but some of the names mentioned sound familiar.

Im going to make a tank divide tomorow as well to try and get the keyholes out once and for all to at least save them and hope for the rest when the tank is cycled so in about a months time ill start adding fish very slowly back into my tank from my friends so like the rams one week then the keyholes in two weeks then the angels next so it will take 6 weeks to get my tank back to where it was, then im not getting any more for at least an other 6 weeks then start to consider it.

thanks for all the advice and help please dont hate me im willing to do everything i can to save my fish

I think hate is an over used word these days. Let's have a war on hate already. And what was your crime? Nothing I can see. Did I miss something? What would get you hated is flushing fish because they are not perfect and just buying more, perhaps. Not the kind of thing anyone with the patience to ask for help would do. Cheers.

I suppose suggesting you just let the tank cycle normally is out of the question? Seriously though, who expects to get anything but ammonia or nitrite readings when you put additives in, there isnt a way to do it without it happening, and if you try to do it faster it happens harder! Cant cycle a tank without going through the ammonia and nitrate peaks.There is no miraculous way to avoid it, and most of the pet shop bought stuff designed to help fish survive a cycle usually only inhibit the cycle itself. Its crap technology. High impact for a shorter period , or lower impact for a longer period, frankly I think most fish survive better with less extreme chemistry over the longer period than highly volatile ones for short periods, were talking gill burn here!

Best stuff for cycling a tank bar none is material from another tank, like live filter media, mature water and biologically active gravel. Anything else, - waste of bleedin time!

All it does is give you wacky water readings to stress about that mean nothing,because test kits dont give good readings when additives are used. Deep breath, and let it happen.

Basically a cycle has to happen , either fast or slow, but either way it'll still average out at 21 days before its close to stable unless you use materials from a mature tank.

thanks for the more replies

im going to go round some of the lfs on the way home tonight to see if i can get some filter media i dont really want to take it out of a friends tank because i dont want to risk their tank and fish. so im really hoping the lfs will be able to help me

im gona stop using chemicals as well if it will prolong things id rather get it over with fast than drag it out

What would get you hated is flushing fish because they are not perfect and just buying more, perhaps. Not the kind of thing anyone with the patience to ask for help would do. Cheers.

would never do that i put them in a breeding trap till they breath their last breath then bury them in my garden. ive only had to do this once in a year of fish keeping so i think thats a fairly good track record

If you can get prime it will keep the ammonia and nitrites from being toxic without interupting the cycle or giving you false readings. Some of those products like ammolock will not only give you false readings but slow the cycle down. I've never seen that with prime. Moderately expensive but highly concentrated. A capful would do a 55g for 3-5days and then you could worry less about the fish. I've had cherry shrimp survive 3ppm ammonia with a dose of prime in the tank and you can add up to 4times the normal dose if necessary.

2nd I'd do daily water changes. As argued in a previous thread I don't think it will slow the cycle at all. So long as your getting testable ammonia and nitrites the tank is cycling so do water changes until the ammonia stays around 1ppm or less. I've cycled plenty of tanks with fish in them by doing daily water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrites low. All the tanks cycled within about 3-4weeks like usual. Back off the water changes slowly as the ammonia drops and the tank will continue to cycle at the same speed without causing harm to the fish. Don't feed the fish at all during this time and don't do gravel vacs unless it's really necessary. Stir the gravel and suck up anything that comes out of it but that's it.

Last if you can get any used filter media or gravel and quickly put it in your tank(over an hour and the bacteria might start to die from lack of oxygen) it will provide some bacteria to help cycle. However considering this tank should already have bacteria in it I don't think it will help as much as it would a newly setup tank. You'd have to add alot of media to make as much difference.

Yep Id recommend Prime too. It seems expensive but in the long run it is cheaper as you only use 1 capful per 50 gallons, and a single bottle works out that a 1 gallon of water changed = 0.02 cents per change with Prime. Its actually the cheapest water conditioner on the market.

I agree, let the tank cycle normally. If the fish seem fine why remove them? As I mentioned before, you will just cause the tank to re-cycle when you add all the fish back!

Id just keep water changes up and use prime to counter any ammonia and the fish should be ok.


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okay thanks for the replies

ive just got back from my lfs with two big bags of dirty water and a bag full of dirty gravel which i dumped under the filter intake. the fish all seem really active

i only did a small water change tonight because of the new water and wanting to get it in fast enough. so only about 10-15 percent.

ill try and find some prime but it could be a day or two till i can get to a good lfs so lets hope the ones i can get to has some in.

thanks again for the suport

Trying, you wouldn't risk your friends tank by taking some of their bacteria. When I do water changes, I wring my sponge in the dirty water bucket until it is almost clean. I usually put some into the tank too so I don't go too far getting rid of bacteria. I haven't killed them yet. Those things are pretty numerous. A sand box full of sand is like how many bacteria you would find on the tip of a pin.

TBH is that is the shop he gets his fish from anyway, and hes never performed a quarantine anyway, I guess no more harm can be done, but for most people bacterial mulm is better acquired from a trusted friend with a stable tank full of long term healthy and obviously not diseased fish.

Trouble with many fish shop tanks is that the parasites and diseases may be there at a low level, but are often kept in check by a UV steraliser, put that gunk into a tank without uv steralisation , and the parasites start to multiply. This is just the same reason why you would normally quarantine the actual fish you buy from them- they may be loaded with parasites, but the uv stops the bugs the fish excrete from multiplying. Its actually one of the reasons ive never really been happy about how many shops now use completely linked systems. To the home owner who might not have UV, there may be a ready selection of invisible parasites from multipe locations and many different species of fish just waiting to bloom.

Too late now, I guess we find out what happens! Hopefully nothing except a swift cycle, and hopefully that LFS tries its best to inhibit too much cross contamination between tanks.. Fingers crossed!

The water and the gravel seem to have really worked really amazingly the ammonia readings have gone from off the chart to between 4.0 and 8.0 so im going to do a water change again tonight and see what that does. I'm just going to scoop the water out with buckets rather than syphon it to keep the dirt in the gravel. But things are looking up

TBH is that is the shop he gets his fish from anyway, and hes never performed a quarantine anyway, I guess no more harm can be done, but for most people bacterial mulm is better acquired from a trusted friend with a stable tank full of long term healthy and obviously not diseased fish.

Trouble with many fish shop tanks is that the parasites and diseases may be there at a low level, but are often kept in check by a UV steraliser, put that gunk into a tank without uv steralisation , and the parasites start to multiply. This is just the same reason why you would normally quarantine the actual fish you buy from them- they may be loaded with parasites, but the uv stops the bugs the fish excrete from multiplying. Its actually one of the reasons ive never really been happy about how many shops now use completely linked systems. To the home owner who might not have UV, there may be a ready selection of invisible parasites from multipe locations and many different species of fish just waiting to bloom.

All his tanks are run on individual filters and he is the best LFS in town everyone i talk to about fish goes to him. So im fairly trusting with it plus i got him to take the water out of one of his expensive fish tanks so im fairly confident things will work out okay

I also have a UV steriliser but ive turned it off to try and keep the bacteria rather than it get filtered through it an killed but if anything pops up i can switch it on ive got every treatment there is from my goldfish keeping days. So im reasonably ready. But please dont mention diseases i dont wnat to jinx it it was only when someone on an other forum said i was over stocked that my other filter failed 0.0

Why not just take the end of your syphon and that way less chance of breaking something and you won't disturb everything inthe tank. Besides, that could be a bit messy!

"Don't Panic"

Djrichie
"So Long, and Thanks For All The Fish" Douglas Adams

sorry one more question

ive just done a water change and i noticed that the plastic pipes are stopping the hood from going right down and so the lid is resting on the pipes slightly its not on any joint and its does not seem to be putting to much pressure on it but because of this the hood is raised enough at one end a coin can roll down it by its self should i worry about this? i will put it right but if its serious i will do it asap if not ill do it at the weekend.

There is usually a notch in the lid for the cords and air hoses to run through. One lid I had, made holes, but I had them into notches because holes are useless for maintenance.

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