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ahhhhh i see..... see.. this is why i ask these questions.. i could always as the 15 yr old at "a non-denominational, big-chain petstore" and get a made-up answer... oooooor... i could come ask dumb questions here, and get great answers.


thanks

*Chelle*
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I love the fishes cuz they're SOOO delicious...

I was able to get my LFS to at least label their GSPs and Figure 8s as BW, but they still keep them in their section of tanks which share Rift lake cichlids salts (which is at least better than keeping them in SA blackwater conditions!).

Figure 8s are great little puffers - I love mine.

I think their stock will probably be OK for quite some time as they're hardy fish, but they will tend to get ich and other infections easier and would have a much shortened lifespan if you kept them longterm in FW. Being BW fish, they're pretty good at spending periods of time in differing salinity. If your LFS would at least tell customers the fish will need BW, the long term outlook for their puffers would be best (but best still if they actually kept them in BW).

Eric

Hi Big E,
thanks for the list.
The Jade Puffer is actually
a figure 8 puffer.
As I suspected both are brackish water
fish.
I intend to inform the pet store,
as they had near mature specimens in freshwater.
They looked healthy, but for how long?


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Check out http://www.pufferlist.comto ID the puffers. Green spotted puffers (GSPs for short but often sold as leopard puffers) are FW when 1" or less, then BW, and when fully grown do best in high brackish/full saltwater...so definitley not FW fish for life.

Jade puffers are new to me, but I'm sure they have a scientific name I'd recognize.

Eric

Wow what an interesting thread!
I just wanted to ask, a LFS near me has upgraded their tank system to a substantially larger system and now have several species of what I would call "medium size" puffers for sale.
Of these, all are listed as "Freshwater", including the dwarf puffers, and two they have listed as Jade Puffer and Green Spot Puffer.
What can I be told about these two, Jade Puffer and Green Spot Puffer, and are they freshwater or brackish as I suspect?


Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
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Figure 8s are Tetraodon biocellatus. Robert Ricketts reports the squirting behavior in Figure 8s, and if anyone in the puffer world would know he would (he had one live 18 years, they routinely lived into their teens, and ran multiple tanks for behavioral studies). Figure 8s only get to 2.5 to 3", but they're quite the inquisitive, personable little puffers...perhaps it's their Tetraodon heritage.

Personality wise, they remind me of oscars or texas cichlids.

Eric

Oh, squirting water at their owners is something that endears some bigger Puffers to their owners! Some of the big ones are definitely 'personality fishes', which is one reason why they have their fans!

However, how big does a Figure 8 Puffer grow? (And, what's it's scientific name, just to give me a memory jog?).

Usually it's the bigger Puffers that are reported as 'water squirters'. The huge Tetraodon mbu is known for this and a host of other tricks (such as rearranging its décor!) but that's a fish that only the dedicated should take on because it reaches 2 feet and needs very large quarters!

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

You're right that out of water puffing is very, very bad - they're really not designed to puff out of water and if they do and don't get all the air out you have to "burp" them underwater which is also stressful.

I'd like to see my figure 8 puff, but as stated throughout this thread I'd never do anything to make him puff.

I'd also like to see him squirt water out of the tank at me...but I'm weird. Figure 8s have been reported to squirt water as a reminder to "feed me", and I like it when fish do weird, but harmless, things.

Eric

My understanding is that if Puffer Fishes inflate themselves with water, then this is only moderately risky. If they are taken out of water and inflate themselves with air, on the other hand, this is very risky. Consequently, taking Puffer Fishes out of water and tickling them to make them inflate to order (something that was, lamentably, done in times past) is extremely cruel.

If your Puffer Fishes, on the other hand, inflate in the aquarium without your having subjected them to artificial stress, and seem to be doing so, as cited above, in order to 'test a new skill', then by all means take advantage of the photo opportunity thus afforded, but don't force them to inflate.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Just to add a bit on this whole puffing issue - many long term puffer keepers report that some of their puffers puff when not stressed. Some do it repeatedly like they're trying out a new skill they just discovered.

So, while I agree a puffer that puffs is usually stressed, I don't think that's always the reason why they do.

Personally, I never saw my dwarfs puff and my figure 8 hasn't puffed either. I'd never try to make my puffers puff, but if they did (underwater at least) I'd not stress about it.

Eric

Last edited by Big E at 31-Dec-2005 13:20

Yeah, and we all know what a winner Mr. Garrison was...

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Cake or death?

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people."

- Mr. Garrison








Last edited by Cory Addict at 31-Dec-2005 04:34

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

The only dumb questions are those un asked.

I know that strictly speaking, this should go in the Puffers section, but more people are likely to have a go at identifying this fish here, and once I've got an ID, I can start a thread in the Puffers section asking about maintenance etc.

Here is the photo I took.

If you're wondering why the photo is poor quality, the answer is simple. The old adage about never working with children and animals came into play in spades here. The only way I could persuade the fish to make itself visible was to stand at least six feet away from the aquarium - any closer and he retreated behind the plants. So this was shot using digital zoom to try and capture as much of the fish's salient features as possible.

So, any ideas what species of Puffer this is?


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Puffers only puff up if they are pretty certain they are going to die if they don't do it. Puffing up is actually a dangerous act for them, because it has the potential to damage or rupture their internal organs (especially if they accidentally swallow air with the water). But this is a risk they are willing to take if they face certain death.

I have bagged up many puffers at work representing many species (both fresh and salt water), and not once has one puffed up while being bagged. It pretty literally takes something trying to swallow them for them to puff up.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

If a puffer puffs on you it basically means s/he is EXTREAMLY stressed. Lets put it this way they are quick little buggers and when I was chasing down my Figure 8 puffer I actually pinned him against the wall on accident and after about 2-3 minutes I caught him permenently and put him in the aclimation cup. During the whole thing he wasn't puffed at all. I love my figure 8 and now that I have added salt (sg 1.008) and his yellows got deeper along with the yellow on the bumblebee goby so this defenantly confirms that they need salt of course we knew that. I really like puffers and now that I descided to make my tank a community brackish tank and my figure 8 is extreamly docile and doesnt nip fins at all so basically i cant get any more puffers for that tank. I may do a brackish water speices tank if I can get my hands on the two puffers I want.

"On a completeley unrelated thing, Why do they call puffers puffers?
do they puff up like they do on cartoons? "



You know, i wondered that SAME question.. i love the fish in general i think they're amazing. but i have NEVER seen one puff up....

do they only puff if being eaten? or do they do it when threatened and mating/or fighting?? or is this strickly something you would see if you fed it to something?

to me puffer fish remind me of little bulldogs.. there is a big spotted dalmation puffer (saltwater) at an LFS here in town, and he likes to show you his beak.. he raises his lips and chases you! reminds me of a real dog!

*Chelle*
_______________________________________________
I love the fishes cuz they're SOOO delicious...

The fish I've seen and photographed is pretty balloon like in body shape, and the tail is a fairly small affair. So I'm running with Tetraodon nigroviridis again.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Ok, it is really hard to tell from this picture, but it may be t. fluviatilis it looks to have a longer body that is kind of shapd like ==> in stead of O=> sorry for the bad graphics but if the slope of the body is more gradual then it is t. fluviatilis if it is more of a ballon figure with a big ballon and little tale then its a green spotted puffer. Here is a good resource, if you get a better picture I will take another look.

Puffer Fishes are so called because they have evolved an interesting defence mechanism against predation. They can swallow water (or air), and inflate themselves to twice or three times their normal size. As this inflation process takes place, spines in the skin that normally lay flat and flush with the body surface become erect, transforming the fish into what is, in effect, a spiky balloon. One that becomes very unpalatable in a short space of time, as any predator that has tried to swallow it, suddenly finds that that the previously tasty morsel said predator thought it had swallowed has now become a chestnut burr in its mouth!

To add to the woes of potential predators, many Puffer Fishes (certainly among the marine species) contain a highly toxic poison in their skin and various internal organs, so that any predator that does manage to eat the Puffer Fish will probably die a fairly nasty death soon afterwards. The toxin in question, called Tetraodotoxin, is a fast acting nerve poison that is fatal to all vertebrates (including humans) in fairly small doses. Which makes the Japanese fascination with Fugu (raw Puffer Fish as a delicacy) all the more alarming, given that improperly prepared Fugu will kill whoever eats it ...

Puffer Fishes usually possess fairly powerful mouthparts designed for breaking open hard shelled molluscs in addition, which makes the bigger ones formidable opponents when cornered in a coral crevice or a cave - those mouthparts can, in the case of the larger Puffers, inflict a fair amount of damage on a human forearm, let alone another fish, which is why the aggressive species need to be kept alone.



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002