FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Something seriously wrong is going on with my tank, and i cannot figure it out!

Here's how it began:
For christmas, i bought the Coralife Moonlight with two 65watt lights (one daylight, one actinic blue) for my 29G. About two weeks after i started using the new light fixture (i only used the daylight, which is only 65 watts), i began to see some BAD algae and more than one kind. I have Diatoms, Green spot, and Beard Algae all over my anubias. My Radican Sword plant is dying, the leaves are turning brown and yellow and appearing with holes, however, the other plants are thriving.

My Bolivian Ram got sick, and i wasnt sure what it was, but i thought it was ICH. The ram was gasping, and was swollen or bloated, had a loss for appetite, and it would rarely swim, it spent its time on the gravel bed. I dosed the tank properly with ICH medicine the day i noticed the fish was sick -- the next day, the fish was dead. All parameters were fine;

pH: 7.1
ammonia: 0ppm
nitrite: 0ppm
nitrate: 15ppm

I did a complete water change, and bleached all the rocks in the tank to take off the algae.

A few days later, my guppy began showing the same symptoms and so did my Powder Blue Gourami. Both died the same day.

What i dont understand is that the other guppy isnt even showing and symptoms, and it is the same species and was purchased with the one that died.

I need some HUGE help here. The tank is constantly forming new algae, and sometimes i only have the light on for 4 days. And i have not dosed with ferts since i did the water change a week ago!!!! The tank is also never seen by sunlight, so i am really puzzled about the algae and my Otto's are not helping at all. As for the fish disease, i really dont know what disease this is, and why this would kill one guppy, but not the other? Also, the other fish arent affected either. I also purchased a few more plants to help compete with the algae, and i washed them and all that stuff, but apparently i must have missed a snail, because now i have a huge amount of baby snails, and when i say huge, i mean atleast 50-75.

Some advice PLEASE.
almost forgot to mention, the tank has been set up since March, and i have never had a fish die before that, and have never had algae or snail problems.

How much light did you have on the tank before that? If your only running 1 bulb then you have around 2.25wpg which shouldn't grow algae that badly and should be enough light for swords.

Ich medicine will kill your plants and some will damage the biological filter potentially killing the fish. Be careful when medicating a planted tank or you can throw everything off even worse than it already is. The symptoms also don't sound like ich. Ich will show up as little white spots like grains of sand on the fins and body and usually is only accompanied by clamped fins not bloating or gasping unless it has gotten really bad. At that point the fish would be completely coated in obvious white spots. If they lack white spots it sounds more like a bacterial infection. It could have started with any fish that were added in the past couple months or from stress and lots of detritus(ie dead plants) decomposing in the tank.

I'd clean the tank extra good with gravel vacs(careful not to cause a mini cycle), remove any dying plant leaves as soon as you notice them, remove as much algae as possible, and do some extra water changes. If you continue to have algae problems you might actually need to add more plants especially if you've increased the light level considerably from what it was. Temporarily adding something really fast growing like hornwort could also help while you get the tank balanced. Duckweed and other floating plants also work but can be hard to remove if you don't want them later.

Thanks lots for the help.

I knew that the medicine could damage the filter and the plants, i took the carbon insert out of the filter when i dosed.

The light before was only 18watts... so, its almost 4 times more light than i originally had.

I will take your advice and remove as much algae as possible, will do a water change, and vacuum the gravel.

Possibly, i will go to the petstore and get a few more plants and maybe some melafix/pimafix

Maracyn helps with bacterial infections and usually doesn't cause harm to plants. Might be a bit more effective than melafix.

Hi,
Do be careful. Read, and follow, the instructions to the
letter. Any antibiotic will affect all the bacteria within
the tank. The medication is not specific and is, instead,
a general antibiotic. Its use could weaken or kill off
the bactera that support the Nitrogen Cycle causing the
tank to recycle.

This is what a hospital tank is for, to isolate the
sick and injured and allow treatment without affecting
the main tank.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Flex,

I'm a little confused. Why are you going to treat the fish? You have not diagnosed a disease. Don't waste money on potions if you don't know what you are fixing.

First, "How many hours are you lighting your tank?" I suspect as many as 12 hours. Buy yourself a cheap light timer that can give you two light periods of 5 hours each. Put a two or three hour break in between the periods. It should disrupt the algae. If not, then reduce the light to two four hour periods.

Second, "Was the radican sword new or in the tank for several months with good growth?" If the radican sword is new and you are seeing the leaves brown and die, you may be seeing emersed vegetation die to be replaced with immersed vegetation (hopefully). Many aquarium plants are grown with feet in the water and their foliage in the air. When you plant them, the foliage dies back but new foliage, adapted to being beneath water, replaces the dead foliage. If the plant had existed for some time, it may need iron as many swords do or it may be a reaction to much brighter lighting.

Lastly, dose the ferts. The higher plants need the ferts with the higher lighting. The algae grows because of a problem in plant nutrition and the higher lighting. You have changed the tank parameters and need to be patient to see everything adapt.




__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

I know, dosing the tank was not too bright of an idea, i was just in a panic.

Alright, i have changed the water, vacuumed the gravel, dosed with ferts and removed some of the anubias leaves covered in beard algae.

So far, the other fish are not showing any symptoms and appear to be healthy and fine. I will start to reduce the light to two four hour periods tomorrow.

As for the sword, it has been in the tank for a few months now and used to always be green and flourishing. Sometimes i used to have a new leaf about 30cm tall grow in a day on the sword, so i still dont know whats goin on with it, but hopefully the ferts will help.

All parameters are still normal, although the nitrate is now at 5ppm since the water change.

Thanks guys.

I'm debating whether there's enough plants there to make fertilizing useful. A sword and a couple slow growers like anubias in a 29g would probably not use more fertilizer than comes in on your tapwater unless your water is very low in something. Especially if frequent water changes are being done to help keep the tank cleaner. Personally I would hold off on fertilizers until at least more plants are added especially fast growers and possibly co2 if you later decide you want it. I think until that time it would only be helping the algae not the plants since the current limiting factor on their growth is probably not fertilizer levels but co2 or not yet adapting to the change in light.

The sword and anubias are not all i have for plants. I have a few Rotala Indica's and some Red Lugwigia's as well.
I keep the ferts to a minimum though, cause you're right, i do not have that many plants in the tank.

There still seems to be no changes except for a bit more green spot on the glass.

When i woke up this morning, everything was still going fine. When i came home from school, i found a dead red phantom, and another phantom that is very puffy and/or bloated and is almost white in colour.

The algae hasnt gotten any worse, which is a good sign... but even after the water changes and vacuuming the gravel the fish are still dying.

Could it be that there is nothing wrong at all and the fish are just extremely stressed?

Hi,
If you went through that tank "like a dose of salt"
you might want to check your water chemistries. You may
have some ammonia or nitrite reading. The biggest source
of nitrifying bacteria is in the gravel on the surfaces
of every grain. The next large bacteria source is the
filter. You may have weakened the bacteria colonies in
the gravel and the tank is going through a "mini cycle."

As far as the sword is concerned, sword plants are classed
as "heavy root feeders." This means that they develop
extensive root systems and can deplete the area around them
of nutrients. When that happens the leaves usually yellow
and die off. Plant tablets, or plant sticks, stuck into
the gravel, about 2 inches out from the center of the plant
will usually take care of the situation.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

the symptoms you describe sound like dropsy - what is the temp of the tank? i have found that if the temp drops below 77F some species stress out. also, sometimes too much protein in the diet can cause bloating too - feed sparingly with spirulina algae flakes. i think the lighting may have been a small factor in something that was already going to happen - i'm sorry for your situation - i hope it all works out. read up on the fish disease forums and other online sources to see if you find something similar.

oh, and invest in a small quarantine tank - usually 5-10 gal is sufficient and keep the new or sick fish in it for a month.


i saw you said you bleached the rocks - with what?

I have re-checked the water parameters. Everything is the same and sounds fine;

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate ~5-10ppm

Thank you Frank for the knowledge about the sword, i will look into getting some of those plant tablets or sticks.

Lochness; as for the temperature, the temperature in the tank is 80 Degrees and always has been since i got the tank in March.
When i say "Bleached the rocks", i mean that i took the rocks in the tank out, threw them into a bucket with some Javex Bleach and water, and let them sit for 30 minutes. This kills all of the living matter on the rocks. I then rinse the rocks off with water, and put them in a seperate bucket with just water and let them soak for 30 minutes. I repeat this one more time to make sure there are no traces of bleach on the rocks before they enter the tank. I have also been doing this since March and have never had a problem.

Newest problem: One of the Red Phantoms now has a HUGE (and i mean HUGE) chunk out of its Caudal Fin (tail). I have no idea what the hell happened here. It was fine this morning, then i came home from work, and his fin is almost gone and it cannot swim properly. The other fish in the tank are 2 Mollies and 1 Guppy -- The rest of the fish have deceased and i really dont see the guppy going after a school of Red Phantoms, and i doubt the 2 mollies would bother them, especially since there was never a problem before.

I am extremely confused. The tank is in total chaos, the only thing that seems to have been resolved is that there is no further algae growth, and the plants are still growing nicely.

Thank you for all of your advice and contributions... any more help or explanations are welcome.

Hmm. Sounds to me like you've got a few things going on in there.
But first off, lets treat this scientifically and not hypothesize before we have made the observations. Other than the aforementioned dropsy, are there any other signs on the other fish of anything abnormal, particularly are the gills looking irritated or red?

The plants, you said some were showing signs of turning yellow/brown with holes. You have dosed fertilizers in this aquarium? If so how much of what brand and how often, and was this before or after a major water change?

As for the chunk out of the caudal fin of the red phantom, well. It wouldn't have just fallen off so I think the culprit there would be a particularly chuffed looking Mollie, Watson.

The reasoning behind my questions (I know I said we shouldn't hypothesize, but meh...) The major thing that stood out to me about the description of the fish deaths was "The ram was gasping". This to my knowledge occurs either when the oxygen concentration in the tank is too low, the CO2 concentration is too high or the gills of the fish are irritated. Leading on from this, I noticed that you then went on to mention 'bleach', one of the worst things for a fish's gills but also that you have recently added the extra lights and ferts plus all the algae makes me think... Is the water in the tank stagnating? Is there surface movement of the water? This is very important to keep the surface agitated. Although the death of the gourami is somewhat surprising as the labyrinth fish are very well suited to low oxygen environments, unless the gills were irritated by the bleach. Perhaps from now on, a good practice would be to add a triple dose of dechlorinator into the bucket whilst washing the rocks after bleaching them.
The reasoning behind the questions with the fert has pretty much already been covered by Frank.
Anyway, this is why I wasn't going to interpret the situation, as there are still many factors worth considering, and as a result has turned this post into more of an inane waffle. Sorry. Hope some of this helps

Something else about your water chemistry, Are your test kits in date? Some of them available, (Red Sea Labs) I have had problems with, 3 months after purchasing they were useless, You might want to get a second set to verify, the results.

mts.gif" border="0"> I vote do you?
My Tanks at Photobucket

The surface is broken constantly creating lots of surface agitation and allowing tons of small (and larger) bubbles of air to reach all the way down to gravel, so i really dont think oxygen would be a problem. I also do not have CO2 injection.

As for the ferts, the ferts are dosed once a week after the water change. Currently, i am only using PLANT GRO (Iron Enriched) by NUTRAFIN (Hagen). This product has;

Nitrogen: 0.15%
Iron: 0.26%
Manganese: 0.05%
Zinc: 0.003%
Boron: 0.0005%
Copper: 0.0005%
Molybdate: 0.0007

"Guaranteed Analysis"

I dose as directed, 5mL per 10 Gallons, I have a 29Gallon tank, so i dose 10mL because my tank is not that heavily planted.

As for the gills, i dont know what else to say except for the fact that they do not look irritated, red, or puffy on any of the fish...

And as for the test kits, its a Freshwater Master Test Kit, and i purchased it in April 2006, but i didnt know that test kits went "bad"?

Here are some pictures of the tank:

This is a picture of the surface agitation
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/fishtank29/24-01-07_1142.jpg

The bubbles in the tank that distribute air (oxygen)
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/fishtank29/24-01-07_1143.jpg

General Picture, can see some of the leaf deterioration
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/fishtank29/24-01-07_1144.jpg

Ruined Leaf
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/fishtank29/24-01-07_1203.jpg

Another Leaf
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/fishtank29/24-01-07_1204.jpg

The Red Phantom without a Caudal Tail... unfortunately.
http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/fishtank29/24-01-07_1145.jpg

Hopefully these pictures will help you guys out.
Sorry for the quality, I am actually going to buy a new digital camera next week, i think. These were taken with my phone, as my old digital camera fell down the stairs...

I think your fertilizer is lacking a little. Most notably there is no potassium. You can't hardly overdose potassium and aside from myself I've come across a few other people who's tapwater was lacking in it. I dose just potassium along with regular flourish. Until I found flourish products locally I was using Leaf Zone for that. I'd look into a more well rounded fertilizer or a 2nd one with potassium and more micros.

A bad bacterial infection can cause both dropsy(a symptom not a disease) and gasping for breath. I'm still leaning toward that being at least one of the problems. A huge algae bloom though could use up alot of the oxygen in the tank but if only one fish was gasping and there's tons of surface agitation I'd still doubt that as a cause. Bleach also should not be harmful if left to dry or soaked/rinsed several times. I've bleached dozens of rocks and equipment without issue. I would suggest though using dechlorinator next time when you are leaving the rocks to soak in a bucket. It helps neutralize the bleach so along with a good rinse there is no question the rocks are safe afterward. After this long and with all the water changes even if they did have some bleach I think it would no longer be an issue.

Thanks a lot for the info Sham, i will take your advice on dechlorinating the water with the bleached rocks.

I used the Leaf Zone fertilizer by API for a while, but i ran out of it and i never bothered to get another bottle cause i had the Hagen stuff... I think i'm going to take a trip to big al's and hook myself up with the Seachem line of fertilizers.

I think the tank is under control now. The fish seem to be doing fine and the algae has completely halted.

Thank you to everyone.

Hi,
There is an old adage about chlorine. How do you know
when something soaking in bleach is safe for the tank?
When you cannot smell it. If you can still detect even
the slightest chlorine odor, it is not save and needs to
be soaked in dechlorinator, rinsed, dried, and tested
again.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--