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I am new at the fish stuff so in my limited experience (!), even after identifying myself as a newbie and asking for advice, I got blown off and given bad advice. I feel this was just to get rid of me because they gave me the quickest thing they could to "get me out of their face"!]:| This was in one lfs. I went to another one and identified myself as needing beginner advice and they were MUCH more helpful (too bad it was too late for my initial fish), even though they were much busier than the first lfs. Needless to say, I will continue going to the second lfs, even though it's farther away. I think it just depends on the store.

HA! i'm sure this topic really brought a storm of people commenting!

My experience with big store chains, is terrible! the people don't know ANYTHING about fish.. One kid told me that lyretail mollies are the males and the others without lyretails are females... uuuhh... no.

i've also overheard a fish manager tell a lady it was okay to purchase a 5 gallon minitank and to add three or four comet goldfish.. Does that sound like someone who cares about the well-being of the fish?

Now my experiences in local shops have always been good, despite one lady telling me a corydora was the bright blue fish on Finding Nemo, and they dont have them. i just laughed and turned around..


mostly i find local people care more about the fish and would let you know if you were doing something that would be bad for the fish... also.. they're not dumb enough to sell dyed fish because "they're pretty and should sell well"

*Chelle*
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I love the fishes cuz they're SOOO delicious...

Hello there,

nice little topic, i feel like im gonna say something.

Teenagers, well its not always there fault. youve gotta think whos telling them all these little fishy facts to be getting it so wrong, because not everything is an assumption.

Besides most of the staff at my lfs are late teens and they get a lot of things right. apart from when i went to pick up some swordtails and was told correctly to get a few more females than males (already knew this), but then took them home to realise the member of staff had got the males and females mixed up. which was nice.

But in my experiance if the teens dont know they will tell you. But if you ask a more mature (shall we say) member of staff a question that they dont know then they will make it up.

Last edited by Lindy at 30-Dec-2005 19:19

Last edited by pos51 at 30-Dec-2005 20:20

OK, now for something to really make your head spin. No names here. But there is a chain store, very expensive, and very nice looking. Custom tanks, high end fish, large library and such, sounds like the place to go right? Well yes and no. This chain store is a nice place to visit, and sometimes make a purchase. The staff is always anxious to help as many people as they can. Now it is really starting to sound like a great place huh? Well, just don't ask any questions there. Because even if they don't know the answer, many will make it up, and some have been known to blatently lie about it to get the sale. The thing is, at this store, everytime an employee makes a sale, they ring out there customers, or at least put in their personal code at the time of check out. Why? Because this is how they get their work. Those employees that make the most sales, get to fill the schedule first, and many times not only get their full time hours, but get to choose the days they want to work. So, those makeing less sales, may be apt to lie or make up stuff to get your sales. So they may work more next week.

This is a true post. Don't ask me the name of the place as I won't even PM you. But there are several people on this website that do know this store, and know how they opperate. So, just use some caution and some common sense when talking with store employees about things.

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There is always a bigger fish...

The LFS here is owned by a marine biologist and he knows his fish really well what he says goes for me. He always gives advice never shooting to make a sale only to make sure I was educated. I teach petsmart employees something every time I go in there. In fact I am constantly giving them documentation on there plants. I think that we should all take our collective knowledge of stuff and make a "Fish Salesperson's Bible" so that they can study and actually know stuff.

I think that we should all take our collective knowledge of stuff and make a "Fish Salesperson's Bible" so that they can study and actually know stuff.

LOL, the thing is, that is part of the problem. What I mean is, many of them have learned over the years, and/or from older persons that have learned over the years. Many and I mean maaannny books have been changed or corrected with much of the info. As our technology advances, so does our knowlege. We are learning new things all the time. And many things in the books are changing all the time. Look at some of the more well known books out there, you will find that there are several versions, and a few have versions numbering up in the teens.

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There is always a bigger fish...

Seems that all the information that we all place on these forums that maybe some of us should group up and write something that we know about as articles covering some of the hotter items. For instance, I have been doing research on the brackish tank, and I started with the brackish article on here but have learned many things past that but I cant write to save my life as many have seen. Maybe I am shamefully optimistic but I mean updatable info online in one place Hours of research would be minutes of reading YAY hehehe. Anywho

Cheers

I have also seen that in the chain stores the people I have talked to didn't really know what they were talking about. In one store I told a girl I eventually wanted angelfish in my 55g and I was looking at tetras. She told me you couldn't keep any tetras with angelfish because they would eat them.
In one chain store there is a guy who seems to know his stuff. But the store's tanks have a few dead fish. That can be looked over though, maybe they had not cleaned them that day, because besides the dead ones the tanks were pretty clean.
I just now started using a local store that has mostly fish and they seem to know their stuff. I have noticed ich in a few tanks and my angel I got from them had its tail chewed on. Also they had danios in another tank with angels and all of them had ripped fins. I just notice little things that they could fix. I haven't found one that is perfect. I do like it when the staff has good, trustworthy advice though. Helps alot.
It would impress me alot if I could overhear an employee telling a customer that the little oscar or pleco they want will not fit in their 10g. I have seen many people sell those type of fish (buy little, gets huge) to people with small aquariums. I should speak up more often, since the staff won't.:%)

*Kristin*

::waits patiently to see responses::

Hi,
So far, I have never run into any that don't care, but I
have run into alot that are nervous with their first jobs,
and many who simply don't know. They either kept a
gold fish in a bowl for a couple of years or a betta in
a bowl for a year before it died, and think they
are successful.

Frank


Last edited by FRANK at 11-Dec-2005 10:44

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

most chain store workers are rotated threw like a pair of socks. now and then they get ones who care and stay for a long time.

smaller local shops are alot better and are more trust worthy and are usually family run (at least the ones near me). i have one local shop, that is family owned operated for now 3 generations.

Fish tanks are an expensive addiction

I have only come into one store which i do not trust the people. Their tanks look Horible. Just last saturday nite, i counted 49 dead fish in their tanks. They have 3 of those tank systems w/ 9 tanks in each. They also dont treat their fish for illnesses. My family owned one is good but the people they have out getting the fish do not know anything. Whoever takes care of them does good. My local petcos and petsmart are also good. The one petco has sick fish all of the time but i think they get them in that way. I also visit thatfishplace in Centerville Pa. They are the best on my scale and the cheapest and the biggest.

I find most pet chain stores and small pet shops are the same..

One or two people you trust because they either know what they are talking about or helped you out of a jam.

One or two people that, although helpful, generally don't know anything about the fish they are trying to help you with...

And always one maybe two people that think they know exactly what they are trying to sell you and won't listen no matter what you say, even though you can tell they have no clue and may as well be selling rocks.


As for department chain stores, I'm not allowed to say the kinds of things I would like to say about them here, except maybe that they shouldn't be allowed to sell livestock at all, ever.

L.

Dont apreciate the teenager coment ]:|

Anyway, I have ran into true idiots. One told me a giant ramshorn snail wouldnt eat plants. Another one told me my ph was 8.6 because she was incompetant at using a test kit.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

I only buy fish-related items that require assistance in chain stores when I cannot avoid it, so far once when I really wanted the Comet Platies. Otherwise I go to my LFS where the experience and knowledge of the staff is mixed (right Tainted Glory? Pssst, he works there ).

Some of the guys at the LFS have some good idea of what they are talking about while others seem to have no clue. I got good advice there quite a few times, but other times I witness the downers. For example &#8211; Once a younger employee was asked by an experienced one why he didn&#8217;t tell the customer that the Bumble-Bee Goby he was about to buy needs brackish water. Answer: &#8220;I didn&#8217;t know&#8221; - in front of the customer.

Another time, at the same store, a younger employee was informed by the &#8220;expert&#8221; that sexing Pearl Gouramies is easy as the &#8220;fatter&#8221; one is the female. Bummer if all are juveniles and equally &#8220;fat&#8221;. I sexed them myself and educated the employee in the process. In case you care, the finnage is the give-away as the orange belly of the males has not yet formed .

In neither nor case was the &#8220;younger&#8221; (actually I mean with that less experienced) employee Tainted Glory, just so you know.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I laugh when I go into my lfs, they are all supposed to be knowledgeble about fish, yet when I was looking for kribs I was told they didn't have any, yet there they were in a tank looking for a home! This has happened in two different stores. They also were the ones who recommended a goldfish in a 2g! Chain stores aren't all bad, I try to go to the ones that have given good service, seemed knowledgeble and admitted to not knowing something but were willing to find out. I also try to visit when the same person is working, that way I can expect good service. Some sales people don't want to admit they don't have all the answers and they'll give a bad answer just to be 'helpful'. YIKES!
I have noticed that some people here work in fish stores, are they local or chain? I'm not expecting to have run into any of you,(unless you fly in to Canada for work) just curious as to what sort of stores you work in.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

Depends on the place, really. The at which I work is chock full of intelligent indivduals, but I am aware that many others aren't as fortunate to run into such a place. Generally, I tend not to utilize other LFSs other than my own--which is not very often, anyways, as nearly all my fish are hobbyist purchased.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 11-Dec-2005 18:10

The store I mostly buy fish from keeps around about 1 really knowledgeable person and the rest either have specific areas they know about or they can't be trusted to even bag you the right species of fish(all the tanks are labelled).
There are 2 other smaller stores in the area that only keep 2-3 fish employees and they have to be at least moderately knowledgeable.
Then there's this huge store about 45mins away that I'm not sure what to make of it. They have about 10 people running around always doing stuff and changing tank water but noone really bothers with the customers or discusses anything. In fact I'd have to say they are quite rude at times and don't want to be bothered to catch the fish. Their tanks are so-so despite all the work they seem to be doing and there is always a row of at least 8 quarantine tanks full of sick fish. I guess at least they quarantine them but none of the employees have talked to me long enough to know if they actually have a clue or just follow orders on how to change water.

The ones in my local pets at home seem to be barely able to express themselves in anything but simian gestures, grunts and hard stares. That is unless of course they recieve a text message while you are asking them a question and then you realise they actually communicate using their thumbs and that their mouths have become defunct. The ones at the aquatic habitat appear to be literate , conversant and knowledgeable. It does seem to help that people are employed for several years, paid more than minimum wage, and over the age of 16.

Generally I find asking people who dont wear corporate sweatshirts advantageous.

"Dont apreciate the teenager coment ]:| "

Naw, I wasn't bashing teenagers. They can be worth having around sometimes; anyways, I was just giving an example because I have seen opinions to that effect.

Dang longhairedgit, you have lfs workers who actually use their phones for texting while on the job? That must be some pretty lax managing; that or the workers just don't care. I couldn't imagine someone doing that to me.

It seems like a lot of people here don't go out of their way to ask for the knowledge of the worker-bees. Heh, I notice that even managers can be very clueless, and staff "experts" may not know much about certain topics. To be sure, there's always a risk when asking another person for help. But does anyone notice a difference between the older employees and the young ones?

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

What do you folks think about pet shop employees? Are they generally trustworthy or are they numbskulls? Do you follow their advice in general, only trust certain ones, or rarely listen at all? I don't care if you hate them and think they're all crater-faced, lying teenagers, just let it all out. I'm curious because I often see worker-bashing on the Internet, and it just makes me laugh.]

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And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

All the stores I visit are privatly owned and they never seem to have that problem. If it is a younger person I will ask first what is their knowledge like concerning ????

The ones I have come across all appear to be perminent not part timers (by that I mean after school and the odd week end.)

Have a look in [link=My Profile]http://
www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/profile.asp?userid=6741" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link] for my tank info

[link=Betta 11Gal Desktop &amp; Placidity 5ft Community Tanks]http://photobucket.com/albums/b209/keithgh/Betta%20desktop%20tank/" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link]

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

As for the age of employee thing that everyone seems to think younger employees incompetant at everything I must say that in my expierence (limited but some lol) I have been misinformed by both old and young employees my general method is to wait for either a manager or one of 2 employees that I know are reliable at my lfs. As for the part time workers being incompetant, do you have any idea how restrictive US labor laws are in some states.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

Ok i was generalising about teenagers, I have seen an enthusiastic kid here and there, but you take someone who has the same interest and has lived with it and is now 30- or 40 and there simply is no comparison.

I find a lot of enthusiastic teenagers often give "beginners guide book answers" and that doesnt equate to someone who has significant experience. There is no replacement for time and experience even if a youngster is talented. There is a temperance that comes from age. If I must be honest the very best fishkeepers I know are all kind of between 40- 60 years old.

As weve all seen in previous threads the conditions of employment are a huge factor in how staff of any age react to the customer , or indeed learn the trade. There will be bad keeprs and shop assistants of all ages, but the persistance of time can turn even a bad keeper into a good one. Teens who are exceptional at fishkeeping should have the sense to not be insulted, I was using a truism, not a statement of absolute fact. Teens even though sometimes thinking they are a different species are in fact just old folks waiting to happen, but thats something you can only see from the other side. Every dog has their day. Ever wondered why prime ministers and presidents arent teenagers? Its one of those things, often the more you know, the less you know and the only people I know who happen to think they know everything about fishkeeping tend to be teenagers.

Its about odds, and id go with the oldies , but thats not because I discount the possibility that teenagers can contibute useful information,theres many on this site that are surprisingly advanced, its just that in a petshop situation... well ... you know. How many fish can you keep on such a small wage? How many books can you buy? And since when did working in a shop give anyone a sense of long term care?

I strongly suspect that petshops arent the best places to find authoratative information on fish, indeed shop culture can actually be completely contrary to ideals of captive care.

It can warp your fragile little minds


Last edited by longhairedgit at 12-Dec-2005 03:33

I want to add a story about a major chain fish store.

This one happens to be in Germany and during my last visit there we needed to buy a stroller (kids got too lazy to walk all day ) and were informed that some super-store has some. Now, these kinds of stores offer almost everything, like a Walmart, but the whole concept was new to me as I have left Germany before such philosophies were carried over the Atlantic.

Anyway, once we got the stroller I asked the information desk clerk if she knows any fish stores in the area and to my greatest surprise she points me to &#8220;Isle 7&#8221;. Once in the fish section, my jaw just dropped. Tank after tank filled with beautifully colored up fish and a large variety, very clean setups. Overall there must have been at least 80 tanks and I saw ONE dead fish. Plants for sale looked very healthy and lush.

I had a chat with the employee of the fish section and complimented him on their maintenance, assortment, etc. During that conversation I could identify that he took his job very serious and that he was a person who knows his fishies. I should mention that Germans are paid much better than American minimum wage.

Too bad I can&#8217;t go shopping there as it would a) be a very long transport to my tanks or b) require me to move back to Germany.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I work at a nice store. It's really geared toward SW, but FW is the best in the area, IMO. In our own defense, we get tired after a while. Unless you've worked in retail, you'll never know what I'm talking about. I can't begin to tell you how many people have come into the store ready to hoot and holler because those neons I just sold them died because their tank didn't have a heater or filter or was loaded with aggressive fish. Trust me, people lie all the time. They'll tell you they have this huge tank with great filtration when in reality they have a 10g tank horribly overstocked. But, some people just have a bad day every once in a while. We try our best to avoid them, but it happens.

A story is in order, from an employee's prespective. I think it was a Tuesday and these guys came in from the car dealership nearby. They want to buy an MBU puffer. No big deal, I let them know the facts (get huge, aggressive, etc), and ask, out of curiousity, what size tank they have. After letting me know they have a 10g with an Aquaclear 30 and no heater stocked with a silver arowana, RBP, exodon, gibbiceps pleco, and TSN, I gave up. These people were beyond help. "It's fine" they assured me, "I'm getting a 20-30g in a few weeks!" Fine...

For the most part, wherever I have been around here people seeeem to know what they are talking about. There is one LFS near me where I had to explain to the woman what a "Mickey Mouse Platy" is b/c I couldn't remember the scientific name and anyone else I have mentioned "Mickey Mouse Platy" to, knew what I was talking about.

Then there is the Local Pet Store. Family owned and operated. . . the only issue is, the grandson of the owner will only do selective things... he will not touch the crickets, worms, etc. . he doesn't clean up, and he is always saying how much he wants to leave. Doesn't seem like a bad guy, but makes the place look bad.

Just random examples, I guess.

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"it's the neck, it creaks under the weight of too much heavy thinking."

Doncha just hate people that wont "touch" things. Ooo i cant touch snails , worms, bugs eels etc. Makes you wonder how they get through a day doesnt it.

I have actually had to catch my own fish in pet shops before now because the assistant has all the netting skills of an epileptic with a baseball bat. Ive been like " LOOK just gimme the damn net before you kill it!".

Trouble with teenagers nowadays is that by the time ya get em all trained up on what they need to be doing around the place that they only have a short time before they grow up and leave home.
Actually, the guys at my local lfs are idiots who think they know about fish, the ones at my local chain store lfs are good, and much better since they unloaded the fish dept manager. What a waste of space she was. The ONLY thing that broad (no offense intended) knew about fish is what she read on the little signs on the wall. "No, angels won't work in a community tank, they're just too aggressive, see they are in the agressive section on the wall here". But in both, I have noticed a vast improvement in both personnel and overall quality of the tanks and such.

My own experience has tended to be as follows.

Small independent pet stores (especially if they were set up by enthusiasts in the first place) will always outdo the big chains. Because, apart from anything else, when they take on staff, they'll set about trying to impart some wisdom into those staff, so that even the so-called 'greenhorn' teenagers in such places will be more clued-up than the assorted downsizing fodder routinely processed by the big companies in a manner that has become known as the Pampers Theory Of Personnel Management here in the UK (after a brand of disposable nappy/diaper - I think you can guess the rest). First of all, your small dedicated pet shop owner (particularly if he's a fishkeeper himself) will weed out the chaff pretty quickly with the aid of about half a dozen pertinent questions, and probably end up taking on a fellow fish nut. Someone who's doing the job not just for the money, but because that person loves keeping fish, and getting to work in a place where he/she gets to look after exotica that's currently beyond the budget is fun. And if the grey cells are working, there's also the little matter of getting hold of some of those exotics at a nice healthy discount if you're on the staff

I have been to one place, incidentally (one of the infamous DIY conglomerates that branched out into pets a few years back - I'm sure my fellow UK FPilians will be able to guess which one) where the staff were obviously hired on the basis of ticking the right boxes on a multiple choice questionnaire without any in-depth questioning. Now this place had, apparently, managed to acquire what appeared to be Anomalochromis thomasi, a fish species whose rarity in the trade I've lamented all too often, and which has been about as rare as the proverbial rocking horse dollop in my neck of the woods for years. Thinking that I might have hit the jackpot here (they were also quite reasonably priced) I decided to collar one of the staff. Unfortunately, the person in question looked as if he was about to fill his underpants with fear within about two seconds of my opening my mouth. The conversation went something like this:

Me : "Excuse me ... these fish in this aquarium, are they Anomalochromsi thomasi by any chance?"

Staff #1 (pauses for at least 5 seconds before replying) "I'll get the manager"

* Waits 2 minutes or so *

Manager : "Hello, can I help you?"

Me : "I was wondering if these fish in this aquarium are Anomalochromis thomasi ..."

Manager : "Er, which ones?"

Staff #1 : "I think he means those kylids ..."

At this point I started thinking Er, what the hell are Kylids? Until it suddenly dawned upon me that the unfortunate product of an inadequate education (designed simply to turn him out onto the streets as a low grade cog in the macroeconomic machine) couldn't even ounce 'Cichlid' properly ...

Manager : "Er, we just got them in as African Jewel Fish ..."

Me : "Ok, thanks ... I'll check them out when they've grown a bit ..." * Leaves store muttering 'Kylids' indeed ... *

So, basically, I gave that place a miss from that point on. I dread to think what the fish went through in a place like that, being handled by people whose understanding of fishkeeping (including at a level in the hierarchy where such ignorance should have been a sacking offence) seemed to start and stop with "er, fish live in water don't they?"




Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I visit lots of pet stores, it's an exciting "hobby" of mine! I'm pretty geeky about it I guess.
We have Petsmarts all around here, but if I'm in another state I'll say "Look hunny! A PetSmart I've never been to, lets go!" haha

Most of my experience has been lacking... I have met plenty who are just down right unknowledgable. I've met others who only know what their company has clearly taught them in their training program, some that truly don't care and even have a dislike for said animal, and some that actually do know what they are talking about. Though the latter is far and few between.

If I over hear a store employee speaking to a customer and giving bad or just no advice what so ever, I will often step in and try to offer my suggestions. Most people are appreciative but once in a great while there are some that just give me weird looks. One petsmart trainer in particular gives me dirty looks when I don't agree with her... in front of customers ^_^

My general experience goes like this...

One local store, my old science teacher owns. He, himself will give plenty of information and advice on fish. If you're buying a lot he'll ask where they'll all be put and what size tanks you have. He also starts a lot of small talk with the customers, just not me. The employees there aren't quite as knowledgable. One keeps 2 oscars in a 30 gallon and suggested I do the same. I just simply responded "No, I'm just waiting for a 55 Gallon so I can get one." Another time some lady came in asking for fish for her 2 gallon tank with 2 goldfish in it already. She walked out with 2 more goldfish and a few mollies. If an experienced hobbyist comes in however, they all of a sudden know the right things to say. Seems like they know how to sell things.

Another one, they don't like to get you fish, let alone talk about anything about them, they'll simply reply "I'm not sure, you should look it up." You can also hear them fighting..."No you get the fish, I'm tired of going back there." So, I never bought anything from there.

The 3rd one around me, which I know live just about 5 blocks from (wooo!) always have great fish, a few harder to find ones, and some rare ones. It may take a while to get the fish, they just need to hire more people. Never had a problem with them, and they're always there will helpful advice.

I will say this, Big Fish is great for us employees. On his last visit to the store, he schooled me and another customer about plants. I appreciate that!