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On doing a bit of research I soon discovered that Hair Algae is a sign of a healthy tank.

There are many medicans that can be used but and a very BIG BUT is that most of these medication can have far more problems like killing some fish.

I removed the main problem plants all Anubias Nanna and just tossed them out. Possibly the cheapest and best in the long term.

With a bit more research I was told here on FP that "Cherry Barbs" will do a good job.

Having the Betta tank with Cardinals I checked it out first yes Chery Barbs no problems at all.

Within 15 minutes of the Barb being in the tank I saw him/her with a good sized piece of algae in its mouth.

Apprently Ottos will not touch it I still have some possibly too much for a single fish to handle.

I was wondering what others have done to fix the problem.

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Keith,

I would be interested to hear other's opinions on this also.

I have a couple of cherry barbs in my 3' tank and I don't have any evidence of them eating the hair algae in that tank. It's of course possible that they do eat them when I'm not looking, and that the problem could be worse without them in there. One thing I noticed is that the hair algae seem to be worse on the leaves (particularly Blue Stricta) that are closer to the top of the tank (i.e. the light).

I've heard Mollies also eat this type of algae, but I haven't tried them (no space).



-P

Keith can you describe the "hair algae" more. The fact that's on Anubias sounds like it could be beard or brush algae. Is it long strands or shorter black patches.

Cherry Barbs aren't renowned for their algae eating capabilities. Quite a large number of species will have a peck at algae but very few do enough to make a difference.

"Treatments" and fish don't work in the long term. The treatments only kill existing algae but it will always come back if conditions remain the same. Fish aren't much good at eating most existing algae but will control somewhat new stuff coming through. None will cure an serious infestation.

Need to get to the root cause and correct that to prevent the alage re-occuring. So a good description of the algae and basic parameters will help.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I just deleted the photos of it but I think I posted the photos not that far back.

The growths were like short under 10mm fine hairs. It is also on the very low ground cover Lobelia Cardinal.

I will have a hunt to see if I can find the photo.

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Bernard
This is the photo I posted

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Ok I remember now.

I can't add anything that I didn't say in my original response.

It looks like staghorn algae.
I am 100% convinced it's due to a shortage of macro nutrients. And that is the only way you can sucessfully tackle it. It's actually quite easy to beat.Chems will only be a temp solution, no amount of algae eating fish will keep it at bay.

You already diagnosed it yourself.

it indicates good water quality

. Yeah......in a fish only tank ! In a planted tank that "good water quality" is a disaster.

For good quality water read no nitrate/no phosphates.For no nitrate/no phosphates read dying plants/lots of algae.

A regular addition of nitrate in the form of KNO3 and KH2PO4 will knock it out pretty quickly. Nothing else will.

You can diagnose the problem easily in other ways also. Are you finding the bottom leaves on say the polysperma are turning yellowing and dropping off relatively quickly ? Are you seeing spots of green algae on the glass ? The formaer will indicate a nitrate shortage , the latter a phosphate shortage.

Increase nitrates to 10-20ppm and phosphate to 1-2ppm and you have this algae beat. You will also have other types of algae licked and healthier plants - added bonus.

Some report success dosing 3 times the amount of Excel, but I would only do that in conjunction with the macro additions.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

The last water test done was No3 Zero, Po4 1+ just a whisker over

The leaves were turning yellow and dropping off now they are there but not turning yellow.

No actual spots on glass more like a green haze and only at the lower level.

Does any of this info help.

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Yes. It's pretty much what I said would be the problem. '

Zero nitrate is disatrous for a planted tank. Your algae problems will continue to get worse and more severe the longer this is allowed to continue.

You absolutely need to get Nitrate in the tank, some phosphate won't hurt either.

You can add Nitrate in the form of Potassium Nitrate KNO3 and Phosphate in the form of Mono Potassium Phosphate KH2P04.

The KNO3 is a little hard to find in Aus. Hydroponic stores or A product called Grants or Greenlight Stump Remover from a gardening center or DIY store will do the trick.

Seachem have Nitrogen and Phosphorous products which are basically ready diluted easy to dose versions of these chems. They are a good option while you try to source the powders.

Keith, believe me when I tell you this is the only way you can lick this problem. Anti algae chems will only work once and the algae will come back. Fish just won't cut it in this situation , I don't care how good an algae eater they are or what anybody else tells you about what they saw their fish eat. Getting the macros in will solve this issue and keep away all others while improving the overall health and look of your plants.

Basically your clean water is killing your plants. The tiny amounts of macros you have are fine and dandy to keep algae happy but will do nothing for plants.

Unless tackled the tank will crash. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. Get the Nitrate. Please.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thank you Bernard I do have a hydroponic shop only minutes drive away.

I also have an excellent LFS who will track down the Seachem products for me.

I will contact you as soon as I get the products.

The stump remover sounds rather nasty what exactly is it.

Looks like I am paying the price for having a good water tank. I have gone from one extreme to the other.

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

No problem keith. Let me know what you get and we can work out a dosage regime.

The stump remover is Potassium Nitrate, but we just use tiny portions. It's good way of adding Nitrogen to a tank that's safe and easy to work with.

You'll see a difference between this tank and the big one. The big fish you have and the foods you use will supply a good amount of nitrate and phosphate. Anubias and Crypts are very conservative plants that won't need too much of anything to do well.

The small tank is another story. Small fish load with some fast growing hungry plants , they use up what nitrate the fish produce in no time.The carbon from the Excel pushes the plants needs also. Without a bit of help from you things go down hill very rapidly.

Good news is we can fix it very quickly once we get all the nutrients in there.There's an imbalance at the moment we just need to get the balance back and keep it there and you have very few problems. It only takes 5 mins a week or less. It's got an Irish guarantee

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bernard
I have located the Seachem in Aust and at the moment I am waiting for a return phone call.

Thank you again for all you assistance.

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

This is the full reply I received from Seacom today.
I have ordered a package what they call

Plant pack enhanser code S1115

I have said this many times make direct contact with the manufacterer or supplier, this prooves direct cntact pay off.

E/m from Seacom
I'm assuming you have a planted aquarium. If you test your
Phosphates and you are at 0 than I would recommend adding Flourish
Phosphorus. If you test your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and they
are all a 0 than I would Add Flourish Nitrogen. If you have an
extreme excess of any of these that might be the problem. Water
changes and adding Flourish Potassium is the best choice in this
case. Also the addition of Flourish Excel will help your plants
out-compete the algae.

Other areas of concern are as follows:
Plants in general need a range of nutrients. Some of them are
provided by the fish waste and others are not. There are three Macro
nutrients: Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. If you have a trace
of Ammonia, Nitrite, or Nitrate you have enough Nitrogen. If you
have a trace of phosphates you have enough Phosphorus. Potassium is
rarely provided unless you add it. The micro nutrients usually need
to be added. Once or twice weekly additions of Flourish will take
care of this. Plants also need a carbon source this is normally
provided by carbon dioxide that the fish exhale or if you add CO2 to
your tank. We also have a supplement that provides carbon to the
plants it is called Flourish Excel. This is used when you have a
planted tank and are not adding additional CO2 or when you want to
supplement the CO2 your adding. Hard water plants (like swords) also
need calcium and magnesium. You can test these in the water by
testing your General hardness (GH). If you have at least 100 ppm of
GH you should be fine. If not you can add Equilibrium. Iron is
another important nutrient. Usually this is chemically removed by
the roots from the substrate. So you will either want to have a
nutrient rich substrate such as Flourite, Flourite Red, or Onyx. If
you don't have a nutrient rich substrate you can add Flourish Tabs to
your substrate to allow the plants to be able to get these nutrients.
Plants can also take Iron up in the water. So we have Flourish Iron
that you can add. It is a very usable Iron that is attached to a
carbohydrate (a source of carbon).

Carbon in your filters can pull a lot of the Trace nutrients out so I
would either supplement those twice a week or switch to an absorbent
resin such as Purigen.

Another concern for most planted aquariums is pH. There are
Phosphate base buffers that are very stable on the market. But those
usually encourage algae growth and will also cause your iron,
calcium, and magnesium to precipitate. You will want to use a
carbonate based buffering system. This can be achieved by Acid
Buffer and Alkaline Buffer. It is also recommended to use a
carbonate hardness (KH) test kit.

Most of our supplements are designed to be added to the water. The
Flourish tabs are meant to be placed in the gravel.

So the basics of what is recommended are: Flourish, Flourish Excel,
and Flourish Potassium.

If you do not have nutrient rich substrate you will want Flourish
Tabs. If you don't have a General Hardness of 100 ppm or Higher you
will want to add Equilibrium. If you don't have a Nitrogen source
you'll want Flourish Nitrogen. If you don't have a Phosphate source
you will want Flourish Phosphorus. To adjust your pH you will need
Acid Buffer and Alkaline Buffer.

Best Regards,
Seachem Tech Support~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seachem Laboratories, Inc. www.seachem.com 888-SEACHEM
~~~~~~~~~

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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Keith, have you had any luck with the Flourish products? I've got to do something quick...I've now got strands about 6" long everywhere. It's mostly on the taller plants but there's some smaller areas on the ground level plants.

James

There was a problem in getting them I should have them within a few days. I will let you know as soon as I get them.

Have a look in [link=My Profile]http://
www.fishprofiles.com/interactive/forums/profile.asp?userid=6741" style="COLOR: #00FF00[/link] for my tank info


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Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

as all types of algae, hair algae comes when we change the "balance" of our ecosystem. 30% water changes twice a week for 2-3 weeks, reduce ferilizers gradually to half and add a little bit of KNO3 would knock it out! I also introduce SAEs (Siameese Algae Eater) who seem to be doing a great job especially with hair algae and BBA!

My tanks with one exception are blackwater conditioned,tapwater conditioned,plant fertilised, heavily planted, and all have siamese flying foxes in. Hair algae never lasts more than a week.