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"People should not be wanting to play God an mess with other being's genes."

But arent vaccines, surgury, transplants, chemotherapy, blood transfusions, medication, etc playing God? They all can determine whether someone lives or dies. Besides not everyone believes there is a God, so if you want to convince non-Christians, youll probably need more of an arguement.

"There are plenty of other ways to measure whether water is poluted, without having to genetically adapt any creature."

If there were better and/or easier ways, Im sure they would have used them. Im sure it wasnt easy developing the fish in the first place. Then they risk pissing off PETA and the like. If they could have just tested a cup of the water, dont you think they would have done it?

If your against screwing with animal genes, Im sure you don't own domesticated betta splendens, fancy goldfish, long-finned fish, domesticated dogs and cats, and other animals selectivly bred for certain traits. Its a little easier than mixing genes in a lab, but yields the same effect: man-made animals.

If it doesnt hurt someone, i don't see the big deal. "First do no harm" and all that jazz

Last edited by katieb at 18-Jul-2005 09:45

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

I'd rather support the gene altering of glofish than the deformities of many goldfish. That also includes the deformities of many dog breeds and the dwarf cats with extra short legs. The breeding of these animals interferes with their natural life alot more than sticking a gene in eggs. You don't know how much happier these animals might have been if people didn't breed for those deformities.

I think you've got to let scientists do their thing, we'll do ours in aquaria. I do see scientific value, but I cringe at the thought of contributing to the demand for these altered fish in our hobby. Just my opinion.

"I am a believer in punctuality, though it makes me very lonely" EV Lucas

I like neither, but I prefer glofish to the bubble eye gold fish. I see no severe harm in the glofish.

Where the ethics of genetic engineering are concerned, the question is exactly the same as with ANY kind of human selective breeding of animals going all the way back to the start of the Agricultural Revolution 5000 years ago: does it actually do harm to the animal? In the case of Glowfish, there's no evidence it does -- which is a lot more than you can say for some of the grotesque shapes that we have bred dogs into over the centuries. (Or, for that matter, Goldfish.)

From the glofish website:


"How common is the use of fluorescent zebra fish in science?

For over a decade, fluorescent zebra fish have been relied upon by scientists worldwide to better understand important questions in genetics, molecular biology, and vertebrate development. Fluorescent zebra fish have been particularly helpful in understanding cellular disease and development, as well as cancer and gene therapy.

How exactly do fluorescent zebra fish help in the fight against pollution?

To achieve their goal, scientists are in the process of adding a "switch" that will cause the always fluorescing zebra fish to selectively fluoresce in the presence of environmental toxins. A non-fluorescing fish will signal that the water is safe, while a fluorescing fish will signal trouble. Although these fish are not currently available, scientists hope to complete this work soon. To help further the research, a portion of the proceeds from sales of all GloFish™ fluorescent fish goes directly to the lab where these fish were created. For more information on this application, please review the article entitled “Zebra Fish as Pollution Indicators,” by the National University of Singapore on our GloFish™ Science page."

Do you have to add a fluorescence gene to every fish before it hatches?

No. Today's GloFish™ fluorescent fish are bred from the offspring of fluorescent zebra fish that were originally developed several years ago to help fight environmental pollution. Each new GloFish™ fluorescent fish inherits its unique color directly from its parents, maintains the color throughout its life, and also passes the color along to its offspring.


So, right now theyre always glowing, whether or not the water is polluted. However they seem to be helpful in other areas, particularly cancer research.


Live and let glow, as they say.

Last edited by katieb at 18-Jul-2005 13:12

Last edited by katieb at 18-Jul-2005 13:13

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

It is actually the GMO Japanese Ricefish (Medaka sp.) that are being used for these experiments that were mentioned. The Glofish were created strictly for the aquarium hobby.

The Ricefish are supposed to glow green if their bodies detect certain kinds of pollutants in the water, but some of "failures" glow bioluminescent green all the time and have been marketed in very small numbers in Asia (not in North America or Europe).

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

However these danios are early warning systems for water ways, they let scientists know theres something wrong before all the other animals get sick and start to die.

Do you have a website that says this? I can't find anything that indicates that they are actually being used to help combate pollution. All the sources I've found say that that was the original intention. Also, I don't think they would give any early warning. Depending on the sensativity of the other creatures in the waterways and the factors that make the glofish glow, they could be much too late. This website says this:

Scientists created the GloFish by inserting fluorescent genes from jellyfish and sea anemones into the eggs of a silver and black zebra danio, a tropical fish from India. The fish was designed to help scientists determine when waterways were contaminated. If they glowed, it meant there were pollutants in the water.


I hope this isn't true, or all our water quality is much worse than we thought .

I don't really care about the glo-fish. They are actually banned here in CA, but I wouldn't get them anyway. I prefer natural fish. Hey, let the little kids with clown puke gravel and flourescent scuba divers shell out $10 a fish. If they were ever released in the wild, they wouldn't stand a chance. They would be picked off immediately because of their glowing color. Predators always go for the animal that is different when there is a big group of them. Studies have shown that if one animal in a herd is marked with paint or something, it is guaranteed to be picked off first and killed. Even if it lived in the wild, as far as I know they get the color by their eggs being injected, so the can't produce little baby glofish.

The fish aren't hurt, nature won't be hurt, so let kids have their fun. I'm sure the novelty of them will wear off and people will stop paying the big prices they are asking for a little red danio.



Last edited by janna at 18-Jul-2005 12:33

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They shade the glow of it with their mossy-misty costumes,
They wear masks of silk, porcelain, brass, and silver,
So as not to mislead with their own, ordinary faces.

Of course, I too would rather not mess with animals or humans if the need isn't there. However these danios are early warning systems for water ways, they let scientists know theres something wrong before all the other animals get sick and start to die. As long as the fish don't suffer, i don't see it as unethical. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

2nd...thats a genetically altered "glofish"...i think its banned here.

Talking about the fish is not banned here.

ACIDRAIN, we know it isn't banned here of FP, but Glofish are illegal everywhere in Canada which is what tankie meant...

you're right; I only own natural varieties of fish.

Where I work, I buy a lot of lab equipment and believe me; you can measure anything.

I have to agree that vaccins and stuff are some beneficial aspects; maybe I was a bit radical in my first reaction.

I do, however, think you should first try to achieve your goal without messing with live animals.

Check out this link..awsome looking fish
http://www.petsolutions.com/Glass+Catfish-I-48060-I-C-40001604-C-.aspx
and this one..http://www.petsolutions.com/Glofish®+Red+Zebra+Danio-I-36055-I-C-40001593-C-.aspx

Last edited by robby1619 at 15-Jul-2005 07:15

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I know human beings and fish can co-exist peacefully.

People should not be wanting to play God an mess with other being's genes.

There are plenty of other ways to measure whether water is poluted, without having to genetically adapt any creature.


Last edited by tinfoil at 18-Jul-2005 01:37

glass cats, need a fast moving tank, with good airation.

Fish tanks should always remain stationary.

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I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

glass cats are nice

the red fish, has jelly fish genes like the medaka fish.


both are very nice aquairum fish

CA

Last edited by bettachris at 17-Jul-2005 10:29

i disagree with the profile in the link for glass cats. mine loved plants with broader leaves to sit under rather than the vals etc

OH TOLEEDY!

I'd have to agree with katieb glofish were developed for scientific reasons not just aesthetics. They can help save aquatic life. The fact people may want to keep them in their aquarium seems unimportant. The fish now breed this way and aren't tortured constantly to produce the color. Fish don't suffer or die to create more glofish. While I wouldn't want to keep them partially because I don't like danios I don't see a reason others shouldn't be allowed to buy them.

"Stay away from the glofish; you don't want to support that kind of treadment to any animal."

What kind of treatment? Its not dyed, its genes have been altered to include the genes of a bioluminescent anenome. The glow isnt super bright and the fish don't notice and are as healthy as regular danios. The fish are used to pinpoint polluted waterways; allowing scientists to save ecosystems and the like. I'm not sure i see the problem.

Last edited by katieb at 16-Jul-2005 19:56

I'll do graffiti,
If you sing to me in French.

I love my school of glass cats in my 55g. They are very prominent and not shy at all when in groups.

They are very active at feeding time.

Talking about the fish is not banned here. But, because it is a genetically altered fish, and not true from nature, it is banned as far as placing a profile about this fish within the profile arcives.

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