FishProfiles.com Message Forums

I've just this minute (as of 00:31 on the PC click) finished the big water change and gravel vac operation on the two aquaria. And this time, I decided to vac the area under the heater that more often than not gets missed.

Cory_Di mentioned in a thread in The Hospital (I think it was yet another Panda patient thread - there seems to be a few of those lately) that gravel vac operations performed on the gravel lying under piecee of bogwood yield huge amounts of gunk. Well my wood gets moved when I do the gravel vac, so it doesn't get chance to accumulate too much mulm. But you should have seen the pile that was nestling under my heater an hour ago!

So, the Panda Fun Palace™ has had a bigger than usual water change. Soemthing like 75%. And, judging by the way my fish are frolicking about happily now, they really appreciate the effort I've just gone to.

So, when doing your gravel vacs, remember those spots that sometimes get missed. So that you don't end up with really icky piles of poo lurking in your gravel bed.

Oh, by the way, can someone fix that stray capital letter in the title please?

Last edited by Calilasseia at 04-Mar-2005 18:27

Last edited by Calilasseia at 04-Mar-2005 18:27

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about! There is a place in my 20g where there is a cave that I usually don't move, but when I do...LOOK OUT! IT IS NASTY! Take care!

- It's spreading

Without plant roots to stir substrate, I have long believed that those areas under fake plants, live stem plants, caves, rocks, wood, etc. compact then give way to anaerobic bacteria and hydrogen sulfide.

I had my tank running about 2 months and a cave I had put in the tank was one of those that was hollow in its structure, but had no way for water to circulate in and out. It was to be filled with water so it would sink and stay put. Well, I went to shift the cave one day, while keeping it submerged, and this sludge started pouring out of the two holes in the bottom and the basement started to smell of rotten eggs. Bad situation. I dropped several airstones, did a 50% water change and whipped the still oozing cave right out into the snow where it sat until garbage day.

I gravel vac'd what oozed out, and moved some other stuff. I could not believe what came up. As cali points out, he is right that below the heater is another spot.

I may be paranoid, but to me all that gunk, without plant roots to feed on it, is a disease outbreak waiting to happen. I do know that aeromonas and pseudomonas grow in compacted gravel. So, about every 6-8 weeks, I remove everything that is loose and put them into bins, then using a very small gravel vac, I methodically go through the tank, stopping momentarily whenever hitting a heavy gunker spot. I use it as an opportunity to scrub any algae off my wood, trim my plants and give the fish a much needed treat - a rearrangement. In all - a 1.5 hour process on my 20 long.

In my goldie tank - the 46 gallon, I remove their stuff every 3 weeks or so as it really gets dirty.

Bottom Feeders are the first to begin getting sick as they are so close to the anaerobic bacteria that would migrate up into the water column. In any tank where bottom feeders are dropping, I highly recommend some deep vacs. The smaller gravel tubes allow for slower working without removing too much water.

As a result of my cave experience, I don't put anything in my tanks that is hollow with tiny holes. It must allow for water flowing through and out. I think hollow decorations just bad designs for aquariums. Once the good bacteria (aerobic) consumes the oxygen in that space, it gives way to bad bacteria (anaerobic) and hydrogen sulfide.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 04-Mar-2005 21:12

The irony I experieonce upon reading that Cory_Di, is that the bogwood decorations only become problematic if I leave them for too long. Fortunately, the bogwood 'boot' that is my Pandas' chillout pad, so to speak, can be just lifted out and vac'ed under any time I want. The spot that yielded the mass of gunk yesterday was under the heater, which is otherwise open and right nect to the undergravel filter uplift tube. And this UGF is driven by a fairly meaty powerhead. On max setting my powerhead produces so much current that I could use it to power a jet ski

Even at only 1/3 max setting, my Pandas think the current is from rapids, and go surfing it

Usually, with twice weekly 50% water changes and gravel vacs (and I go mining right down to the magma when I gravel vac ) my nitrates hover around 5ppm, rarely nudging double figures. Suddenly, I was reading 17ppm, and thought "Hey up, have I got a dead fish somewhere?". Turned out my heater was hiding a mini cesspool - yuck.

Nitrates are now too low for my test kit to measure. Yay! Probably be up to 5ppm again in a week's time.


Last edited by Calilasseia at 05-Mar-2005 04:06

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

That's another good point. I think the excess gunk does contribute to more rapid nitrate increases. I've found this with my goldfish tank. It's not enough to do just water changes and light gravel vacs around stuff. When I remove the plants and vac good, removing the same amount of water as when I just vac around stuff, my nitrates don't rise as quickly.

Well, I'm a convert. Even if my hard-core vacuum under my driftwood doesn't solve my panda problem (since I'm the one who started the thread Cali refers to in the The Hospital folder), just seeing how much gunk I got up convinced me to re-think my decorations. The huge artificial driftwood is out and will eventually get replaced with something much more portable, that can be moved around and vacuumed under.

I'm also thinking about adding some live plants to keep that substrate aerated. Without my driftwood, I suddenly have extra room to fill.

Kathy

So long as you remember to gunk mine under it regularly, there's no need to throw away a favourite piece of aquarium furnishing. Especially if your fish like it.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

The stuff I had was two pieces of artifical driftwood that you stacked together and each piece was quite heavy. I wasn't vacuuming under it because moving it was very difficult and I was always worried that if I bumped it, it would fall and squish the poor little fishies. Now I'm on the look for something that looks just as nice, but is a lot lighter and more portable. Live and learn!

Kathy

Try to stay away from anything that holds water in a way that won't circulate - see my comment above on the cave sludge I got with one of those. It needs to either be completely solid or hollow enough for water to flow through, rather than stagnate in it.

UPDATE : The Magical Power Of Water Changes & Gravel Vacs (among other things ... )

Well, what do you know? I go to the trouble of a major water change and gravel vac on the Panda Fun Palace™, and here we are, 24 hours later, Mata Hari is hitching her petticoats for the boys again. This is the 70th spawning since the Pandas began their XXX action career on May 5th, 2003. You too can enjoy success like this if you water change and gravel vac a lot

Did another running commentary in the chat room on the latest outing. Heidi is busy trying to set up a similar fun palace for Corydoras metae in an attempt to emulate me



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Cali - do you have pictures? I'd like to see this "Fun Palace"

Coming up!!!

EDIT: this is the first of five. Just select the "Next Picture" arrow above the photo to see the detail shots, and the now infamous pic of me standing next to the aquarium looking a bit like Oleta's hermit crab

Last edited by Calilasseia at 06-Mar-2005 12:05

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thanks Cali - That is a wonderful piece of bogwood, or whatever kind of wood it is. It stands up nicely. Great shots of the babies too.

I never would have thought of using UGF for fry, but in a way it is ideal as they cannot get sucked up into a siphon, provided the outflow tubes are covered to some extent.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 06-Mar-2005 12:11

The breeding aquarium that now sits underneath the Panda Fun Palace™ has a UGF, but airstone powered so that fry have less of a struggle. When I can actually let Mata Hari and the boys loose in it, and raise a batch of fry, I'll stick to airstone power until the fry are about 10mm long, then switch to a powerhead. Which should make life fun watching 20-odd baby Pandas frolicking in the current!

Mind you, I've had fry survive the attention of the Characins and snails in the Panda Fun Palace™ before today. It's amazing how they can survive such attentions, provided that the water and gravel are both clean.

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002