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Hi there, I have had my tank up for a week now and my current tank readings are as follows:

PH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.25
Nitrate: 5.0

With this level of toxins, am I allowed to put any fish in my tank without killing them? Its just that I heard a tank never ever has levels of 0 for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate. Is this true?

I was thinking to start of with maybe 6 Neon Tetras or Cardinal Tetras. What do you think?

Thanks

Leighton

I wouldn't add fish until your ammonia and nitrite are both 0. Nitrate should be no higher than 40ppm. I think that you should wait to add delicate fish like Neons and Cardinals. Try some hardy fish like zebra danios or maybe guppies once the tank parameters show both ammonia and nitrite at zero and at or under 40ppm nitrates.

It's seems like it takes forever to cycle a tank doesn't it?

Truestar there was right on the money, 0.25 nitrite is just as toxic as 0.25 ammonia, indeed some fish species are even more vulnerable to it than ammonia. Sounds like you have at least another week to go, possible two. Readings may be low particularly on ammonia because there isnt much organic detritus in the tank yet. Are you using any cycling agents, ammonia, or organic detritus to get it started?

Might find that if you put in fish now, the bacterial colony might be so underdeveloped that the cycle could last an entire month from the point you put the fish in.

Feed that bacterial colony and get it up to strength, and definately no ammonia or nitrite readings before the fish go in. Id rather overfeed it with ammonia or detritus and have to do a water change/gravel clean to lower nitrate before the fish go in than take a risk on an underdeveloped colony.

Often a way to test it, is to drop a little fishfood in , and if 48 hours later you have a spike, you know the colony is still too weak to take fish.

OK thanks for your advise and help. I have not added anything in it so I think I will wait until next week. I thought that Nitrate also had to be reading as 0? Or is a little Nitrate ok. Which toxics are most dangerous, Ammonia, Nitrate or Nitrite? I thought they all were? I get confused with them all!!

Help! LOL

Leighton

Nitrate production is perfectly normal and shows that the cycle is underway. You aim to keep it under 40ppm with weekly water changes and by keeping a sensible stocking level.

Its the nitrite and ammonia you dont want, fish can take a little nitrate, and its basically unavoidable. Ammonia and nitrite are both equally toxic at around 1 ppm,, any detectable reading will be detrimental to the health of fish.

Nitrate isnt dangerous to all but the most sensitive of fish until it reaches around 40 ppm, which is the equivalent (its a weaker toxin) of around 1 ppm of nitrite or ammonia.

Keepers of especially sensive fish usually keep their nitrate below 20 ppm if they can.


Thats the point of the whole thing, we use bacteria to convert the dangerous nitrite and ammonia to nitrate which is the least of the three evils so to speak.

A well cycled aquarium will show no reading of ammonia and nitrite, and constantly produce a slow steady increase of nitrate, which should not exceed 4-5 ppm per week (its a good way to guage your stocking level) so that you need not unsettle the fish unduly with large water changes, and get by quite merrily on a 25% or less water change per week.

It pays to keep nitrate low as you can, but it doesnt pay to shock fish with more than 25% swapouts per week, so for that steady , healthy tank, dont overstock it so that more than 5 ppm nitrate is produced in a week. Nitrate is accumulative over time, so unless you keep on top of it, and make sure the tank perams are kept stable, when it gets to 40-80 ppm or so you may start to get fish health issues, dropeye, gill and renal system damage, skin slime layer damage etc. Something that both ammonia and nitrite can do at 1ppm. About ammonia 2.5 and nitrite 2.5 ppm or nitrate 100 ppm is generally considered lethal to most fish except for the smallest exsposure time. Some fish may take lethal and permanent damage in anything from a few hours to days. Exceptional fish survive months in such conditions, but thats usually the exception to the rule. I have seen a goldfish start to wane at 200 ppm, but again this was exceptional. Most die well before that. Good fishkeepers aim for ammonia 0 nitrite 0 ,nitrate 40 ppm or less.

ps, when you do need to rinse out your filter media, rinse them out in tankwater, not tapwater, the idea is to unclog it but not get the bacteria off it, chlorine in tapwater will kill beneficial bacteria,forcing you into a re-cycle. Second, make sure you condition tapwater before putting it in the tank, particularly if the tank is small and just starting out. After than maybe you can risk putting the water conditioner straight in the tank and just top it up, but personally I always like to condition water well in advance.

All clear now?

Wow - you know your stuff. Thanks very much for the advise. I understand it now!

Ta

Mr. Git is bang on. I change about 10% of the water weekly in the 50-gallon library tank that I maintain, and this seems to do a fine job of keeping ammonia, nitrites and nitrates in line. (The filter by itself will not remove nitrates and some other substances, such as acetones, that accumulate slowly -- thus the need for those water changes.) Also, remember his advice never to rinse your sponges or whatever other physical medium your filter uses in chlorinated water -- just rinse 'em out in the water that you just pulled out of the tank.

On cycling a tank, two more notes. First the "Cycle" liquid bacterial culture seems to work very well in speeding up the process. Second, Black Tetras are also very good fish for purposes of cycling your tank -- but as he says, don't, for the love of God, ever put Neons or Cardinals in there first.

In my experience, Cardinals are more durable than some of the books make out -- but they really do demand pretty clean water. (They are also even more supersensitive than most fish to the tiniest trace of soap -- even mild hand soap -- in the tank: something I found out about the hard way a decade ago. NEVER wash any part of your aquarium with soap, and make sure you have none on your hands either.)

on a side note after you cycle a tank, the fish used to cycle (which in my opinion i a bad idea) are weak, and stay that way, when a fish is put though alot of stress it is belived that they are forever weaker and therefore more likly to contract or show signs of sickness, if you are going to add the showing fish the cycle fish should be removed to avoid the spred of things unwanted. this isnt a forsure thing but if you are goign to take the time to have a nice healthy tank why chance it, and before anyone says anything about removing the fish i have to say thats my point , what do you do with them? this isnt a thread about ethics i know and wouldnt try to make it that iam just throwing in my 2cents.

I didnt see what size tank you have but id like to say that in my experience a small tank looks easy but it is infact harder to run and care for ,less water equals less chances to mess up so the content of the water can have spikes which will lead to stress and possibly sick fish

thanks for your time.



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I would add that neons and cardinals do better in acidic or at least neutral water, they won't thrive in PH 7.6 although they will survive.
Consider adding some peat into your filter (you must put it in a special 'sock' that you can find in your local fish store, otherwise it is going to float and make a mess in you tank; also wash it before adding it to the filter, but without smashing it). The peat will colour your water a little bit. You will also have to be careful not to add too much.
Another option is oak leaves extract, this one won't colour the water brown like the peat, at least not noticeable. It can be also find in fish stores.
A third solution is black water extract, this will colour the water like the peat does.
Avoid the PH minus solutions that won't say what they contain, as I know they are based on clorhidric acid (HCl), a mineral (strong) acid.