FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Tanks looking good! had 2 fish Id for me "normans Lamp-eyes. last week added 3 pot belly(balloon)mollies and found they breed like rats..2 are spitting fry(just noticed)tonight,an hour ago. Mind you the tetras are having a feast... bought 2 plants within the last few days found they had snails..been picking them from the tank, as I see them.
Im sure Im just wasting my time
now for the Silver dollars I bought yesterday...they...I think... have ICK
Ive liquid Super Ick Cure new never had to use it. bought it just incase when I set up like 2 yrs ago or more
Do they have Exp dates?? dont see one..well, so think Im gonna have to use it.
can you tell Im new at this..

sue

i dont think it will go bad well...that fast.

that is why it is so important to get a small QT

it did..ive 3 tanks empty..
trying to cycle one tonight..wont do..I do have cycle but..to risky dont you think?

sue

Ok first how big is your main tank, second how big are your empty tanks? The reason I ask is you may beable to setup a QT without a cycle. If your main tank is big enough drain up to 50% of the water out into a smaller tank that will be used for a QT. Take some of the gravel out also if possiable and put it in the QT. If you have an extra filter use that on the main tank and use the filter off the main tank and put it on the QT. This should help keep the tank from doing a major cycle. You can then just fill the main tank back up. It will be like doing a normal water change. Just don't take out more then 50% from the main tank or you could end up cycling that tank.

As for the ICK, you could use the meds or use some table salt but either way make sure to raise the temp to at least 85D F if possiable as this will help with the ICK alot faster. Make sure that the fish can handle the salt first though. Remimber that the main tank will still need to be treated for ICK as it will still have it in the tank after you remove the fish. If your lucky it may not as it was just put in but why take any chances. It usally takes about a month to fully treat ICK. Hope this helps some and good luck.

---

Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

---

I thought the same thing needeles,could use a QT tank for other reasons in the future, but wouldnt It just make sence to do the whole main tank right now Im real worried about my lamp eyes...
first I like to say the silvers are the only 2 with it..is it, it,well I do know what ick looks like but havent we all to admit we see things from time to time..
So heres what I did, added Aquarium salt and raised the temp.(just a bit)Will do a water change in the morn(20%)I see about 4 on one and 2 on the other fish..not a heck of alot..damn hard to really tell because of the colour and they are active..eating fine and no rubbing , been watching the tank for 4-5 hrs

you know it just occured to me, brings back the thought of when the young guy at the LFS was netting them dont you just hate that this LFS is like a fast food joint..in and out..so they can get back to the socializing game..
Next time i will do it myself..
Well hope its nothing to much..and Ive got it early..might use meds if I have to..
tks for the help..

Oh btw Ive never used table salt in a tank before..why that and not aquarium salt..is there not a difference?

sue

WARNING - quite a few fishes will NOT tolerate salt.

If you have Corys, Loaches, ANY scaleless fishes for that matter, and a goodly number of Characins, they will not like salt. In the case of Catfishes and Loaches, salt will see them off in pretty short order.

If you DO have a White Spot infestation starting up, the best way to deal with it is to use Protozin. Protozin will clear up the infestation without inflicting undue damage on your biofilter. I've used it in the past and it works VERY well.

Here is the manufacturer's page.

Treatment régime for White Spot is to continue using the medication for at least 72 hours after the last of the white spots has fallen from the fish, sometimes longer (7 days is a safe bet). The reason for this is that the medication cannot affect the protozoan parasites while they are in the adult stage (i.e., inside the 'white spot' and feeding on your fishes). What happens is that the adult parasites, once fed up, drop off the fish, then divide into hundreds of daughter cells, which then break out as free-swimming larval life forms. It is these, invisible to the naked eye, that the medication kills. So you have to continue adding medication until all of the free swimming swarmers are killed.

If you are able to feed live foods during treatment, this will be greatly beneficial to the fishes, as in my experience, feeding live foods can halve convalescence times for fishes. This won't affect the parasites' life cycle - you'll still have to medicate in accordance with the above directives - but the fishes will be given a much needed boost if they are fed live foods, and once the infestation is gone, they will bounce back to full health a LOT quicker. I discovered this the hard way with some Cardinals which I treated for fin rot - during the medication period, I happened to have a glut of live food handy, so I thought it wouldn't do any harm to give the fishes a banquet. Normally, it takes 14 days for a fish to recover to a decent state of health from a bad fin rot attack, but when I administered live foods in quantity, the fishes bounced back in 7 days and regrew the damaged fins into the bargain. Consequently, if you have a good supply of live food handy (particularly if it's a supply whose provenance you know well, and it doesn't come with unpleasant hitch hikers - again, I'm fortunate in this regard) then heavy live food feedings will help arm your fishes nutrition wise for the coming battle.

If you feel the need, you can also put the live food in a container with medicated water and leave it there for a couple of hours before feeding the fishes to be extra safe.

One thing that you NEVER do, incidentally, is dump the contents of the live food bag in the aquarium. ALWAYS empty the live food into a fine net, rinse under the tap, then transfer to clean water to check for hitch hikers first. Then, once you've cleared the food as safe (and removed things such as whirligig beetles that may be travelling in the bags) rinse in a net again, transfer to more fresh water, medicate if you wish to, then leave for a couple of hours before feeding. The contents of the bag include pond water from the home of the live food organisms, and while good Daphnia ponds, for example, are relatively (though not completely) trouble free, it always pays to take precautions and avoid adding pond water to your aquarium - unless of course the water in question is from your own Daphnia pond and that pond has never had fishes in it!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Hi Calil, Fish look good just fed them(little) didnt add much salt. Baby mollies are still swimming around..4 I see(for now) 1 silver has none and the other I notice has dropped one dot off.
All I have here right now Is Liquid super ick cure, should I use it now, im not able to make it to the LFS today?
I think I will give the live food a try, for something a little diferent for them all.. thanks calilasseia

will do update later tonight..
Oh Calilasseia can you tell me why some put table salt in the tank?

Yes you can use normal table salt to help treat ICK but as stated above be careful with the fish as some cannot handle salt. If I remimber right ICK can really only be treated when it is no longer on the fish itself. If it is free floating that is when the treatment really works. The molies are ok with alittle salt if I remember right.

ICK looks like alot of very little white dots on the fish. They are pretty small in size, almost looks like a grain of salt. Yes it is best to treat the whole tank and the ICK could be free floating and will simply infect again. Be sure any treatment you do will not hurt the fish, bactiria or plants or you could end up going through a cycle and that could be just as bad as the ICK itself.

Go ahead and setup a QT if you can but do it the way described above. Treat that tank for ICK to be safe. In the future then when you get new fish or plants put them in that for a few weeks before adding them to the main tank. Then you won't have to worry as much about problems like above. Good luck

---

Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

---

Hi,
Salt will not kill the Ich Parasite. What it does do is
stress the fish, thus increasing the amount of "slime"
that they produce and slough off. The theory is that by
raising the temperature ( a very good idea ) and adding
salt, that the free swimming parasite cannot attach itself
to the body of the fish as the slime, as it sloughs off,
will carry the parasite with it. It is not necessarily
true, and as was stated salt can further stress the fish.

THE only modern way to kill off the Ich parasite is to
treat the tank with a modern medication and raise the
tank temperature. The medications contain copper and that
is lethal to the parasite (during the free swimming stage)
and raise the tank temperature to speed up the life cycle
of the parasite.

At one time another "home remedy" was to add copper pennies
to the tank or the tank filter. THE active ingredient that
kills the parasite IS copper... BUT there is nothing in
print that I've ever seen/read about that says for a
Xgallon tank, add Y number of pennies. Copper can be lethal
to most fish and even plants. It is really easy to over do
adding pennies to a tank as a form of copper, AND that form
of copper is not the correct molecule.

As with all medications, READ THE BOTTLE as copper in even
minute amounts is lethal to some fish.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Wow, well thanks for the info. I always thought adding salt was a good idea. I have never had a case of ICK but have read plenty. If I do get it I will just use the proper meds then and not salt. Sorry for posting the wrong info.

---

Live life to it's fullest
Who knows what tomorrow holds

---

Hi Needles. no harm done, would have gone for the salt anyway. dont like putting anything in the tank unless it aqua clear or cycle..
We all learn from each other and from our own experiences.
Im new to the hobby, few yrs here and there, I have some knowledge, but not enough. mainly when it come to some fish disease, what I have learnt though is...
Water condition is the most important part of it..achieving it and keeping it stable..all tanks differ..which in turn cause sick fish..sometimes just a simple water change can do wonders..
and what appears to be the same disease on different fish, or on the same fish a few days later, might not be the same affliction. So the meds used for one might not be effective for the other.
I thought salt would be good for stress and scrapes, fin damage..sluggishness, not eating etc..but no good for secondary infection if it sets in..antibiotics would be needed.
did my water change and will med the tank with super ick cure, all I have right now..

tks again for the info.. frank that was interesting and first ive ever heard..

Sue

On the subject of protozoan diseases and medication, has anyone ever alighted upon any research being conducted into NON copper medications for the likes of Ich?

Only since quinine and related compounds have been used in the past to treat malaria, and research in the field of medications for this and other serious human diseases is very active (the Bill & Melinda Gates foundation recently stumped up a whopping $3 billion to push malaria research forwards) it strikes me that some spin-offs from malaria & trypanosome research, for example, may well have been pressed into service in modern times. All the more so because marine fishkeeping is now a thoroughly established branch of the hobby (look how many salties we have here on this Board!) and consequently, a non copper medication that is specific to protozoans would find a ready marketplace among the salties (especially if such a medication didn't harm the invertebrates that were wanted in a saltwater setup, such as corals, hermit crabs, Turbo snails etc).

Mind you, having said that, malaria and trypanosomes are two tough nuts to crack. Bacteria are easier to deal with because their molecular biology relies upon significantly different processes than eukaryote cells, which is why antibiotics have been such a success story - they target the growth, reproduction and metabolic mechanisms that are specific to this class of life form. Protozoans are eukaryote cellular organisms, and thus share far more metabolic machinery with the rest of the higher life forms, making [1] prophylaxis, and [2] specificity, the stuff of cutting edge Ph.D research. I also suspect that dealing with 50 million or more human deaths per year from malaria is going to take far higher priority than fish medication, though it would be nice if some of the research effort in these areas generated some spin-offs for us aquarists too.



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

the bottle of super ick cure that I have say nothing about whats in it...do we asume small amount of copper?..im confused..one bit it says is that.."Warning this product contains a chemical to the state of California(US)to cause cancer".
nasty stuff??
only see 1 dot on silver..
looks like its working they would be now in cycle in the water and dying off..

sue