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Need Help!!!

I have a New 10 Gallon Setup as of 12/26/05.
2" of gravel,
heater,
WHISPER 20 filter,
WHISPER 20 air pump,
18" bubble wand,
seperate air stone.
Artificial plants
Castle
Initial readings were 0 ppm ammonia, 7.0 pH for 1 week.

Indrodution of fish 1/2/06

(1) clown pleco [still thriving]
(1) black fin Shark (catfish) [still alive, but very active]
(3) Emperor Tetras "1" went DOA after 30 minutes "It started swimming end over end".

Re-introduction of fish 1/4/06
(2) Emperor Tetras "1" went DOA 12 hours later [unobserved].


3 days later very cloudy water.

pH 6.4, ammo 10.0 ppm

"Ich" was rampant effected all fish acccept clown pleco.

"QUICK CURE" was administered. No signs of "Ich" BUT

Ammo still above 8.0 50% water change brought Ammo to 4.0 but now it is rising.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated..


Last edited by Fallout at 15-Jan-2006 02:19

Your tank isn't cycled, read some of the articles on this site, they're very informative. Proper cycling can take several weeks.

ok, you are going to have to get some cycle ASAP! your tank is in the begining of cycling! should be exciting except the fact that your tank is over stocked for cycling purposes, and your fish are not hardy enough to withstand these extreme conditions!!

my advice, run out and get cycle, and return all the surviving fish, im not sure any will survive, if you want to give them a better chance, return them, and finish the cycel fishlessly, then after it is cycled, go out and get fish, also the clown pleco will get too big for that tank, i recomend that AFTER the cycel is finished (ammonia goes down, nitrIts rise and fall, then the cycel is finished when the appearence of nitrAts appear, then you do a water change, and add fish)that you get a school of small fish and a centerpiece, and call it a day

Nicely put.

Here's my added 2 cents:

If you can find Bio-spira...it is a better bacterial starter than Cycle. It will speed things up faster.
To fishless cycle you need pure ammonia. Search the web for "fishless cycling" to read up on it if that's what you want to do.

If you don't want to do fishless, then get a few zebra danios to do the cycling. Try to get the Cycle or Biospira though because of your high ammonia. No fish will be able to survive that (8ppm). Keep only the danios in the tank until the cycle is finished. Then take them back and get a school (6) of small tetras (neons, cardinals, lemons) and maybe a center piece fish (male betta, dwarf gourami). That is about all a 10g can hold.

Take the pleco back...it will be too big for a 10g, and produces too much waste for that small of a tank.

Do small water changes to get the ammonia down so any fish you put in there will not die.

I know zebra danios are not good for a 10g, but I couldn't think of another small, hardy fish to cycle with. I cycled with 3 danios and they all lived. Good luck! If you have any more questions...ask away!:%)

*Kristin*

o yeah see if you can find some biozyme in powder form i used some and the cycle went by fast and there is no chance of it being "bad"

>>>----> <----<<<

pnh

Whoops ... classic mistake.

New tank for Christmas, and you want to see it full of fish. You put in a brace of fish, and wham, they're dropping like flies. An all too familiar scenario.

OK, here's your nitrogen cycle basics.

Animals have less need for nitrogen than plants. Indeed, most animal metabolic systems are designed to remove the excess nitrogen and dispense it - frequently in urine as either urea in the case of humans, or ammonia in the case of fishes.

Trouble is, ammonia is toxic to fishes in small quantities. And if you genuinely have 10 ppm of ammonia in that aquarium, I'm surprised anything is still living in it!

So, you're now going to ask me, how do I deal with this, given that the fishes are busy peeing ammonia into the water?

The answer is : biological filtration.

Think about it - fishes in the wild are busy peeing ammonia into their rivers and lakes. If something didn't exist to metabolise that ammonia and convert it into something harmless, those fishes woudl't be there for long. So, what is out there that does the job?

Bacteria.

In particular, special kinds of bacteria called nitrifying bacteria. There are two different types that need to be cultivated, and at this point, you're going to ask "how do I cultivate them?". Here's the beautiful part: they're already sitting around in the environment waiting to go to work! You just have to give them some encouragement, and they'll start colonising your aquarium and eventually provide a filter system that will mop up all your fishes' ammonia. You do this by providing them with oxygenated water containing some nutrients - in this case, at first, some ammonia. Best way to create a sustainable filter is to leave the tank unstocked for the first four weeks or so, and keep adding a small amount of fish food every day as if you were feeding actual fishes. What happens is that you start the decay cycle, which eventually leads to ammonia production. Then, your ammonia consumers (bacteria known to science as Nitrosomonas) start getting to work and multiplying like mad.

However, those bacteria will convert your ammonia to compounds called 'nitrites' (compounds with NO2- ions in them). These are still toxic to fishes. However, a second batch of bacteria (called Nitrobacter) come to the rescue. They take your nitrites and convert them to nitrates (compounds with NO3- ions in them - note the extra oxygen atom). At this point, you're nearly home and dry. Nitrates are much less toxic to fishes than either ammonia or nitrites (though large enough levels will stress your fishes), but the point about nitrates is that they are primary fertilisers for aquatic plants. So, have some plants in there ready to feed on the nitrates, and you're well on the way to having a nice aquarium in which your fishes will be happy.

Now the bad news. It takes time for these bacteria to develop a population in your gravel (or filter sponge if you're using an internal canister filter instead of an undergravel filter) and you need to wait before adding fishes to the aquarium. Typically, this takes 4 to 6 weeks for the job to be complete. Then, once you have an established colony of filter bacteria, you have to add your fishes slowly. No more than 6 at any one time, and space out your introductions by at least 4 weeks. Yes, it's going to be agony twiddling your thumbs waiting for this to run to completion, but as I keep telling people, in this game, patience is a BIG virtue. This article of mine should prove to be interesting reading for you!

So, the watchword here is patience.

By the way, didn't your fish supplier tell you all of this? Or did he just take the money and watch you walk out of the door?

If the latter, I'd change your fish supplier. Responible dealers take the time to educate their customers and guide them through the pitfalls. On the basis that a happy customer who enjoyes successful fishkeeping is a long-term customer who'll keep providing a steady income for years to come. Someone like me who's been doing this for 30 years. Unfortunately, the short-sightedness of some in business (bang it out the door and collect the loot) leads to the very kind of disaster that you're now experiencing - bad advice (or worse still, no advice at all) and a headlong rush to pocket your money without worrying about the consequences afterwards leading to expensive heartbreak for yours truly. Which you're now experiencing.

Since you already have fishes in there, you're now in the unhappy realm of damage limitation. Which will be quite a challenge to a newcomer, and expensive. You've got disease to worry about now, as well as the business of making the aquarium a sustainable home for your fishes, and the medication for the fishes is going to kick whatever biofilter bacteria you have at the moment in the teeth. A mess you could well do without at this stage.

If I were you, I'd resign yourself to some fairly hard times ahead.

First step - get a small bare aquarium you can use as a hospital tank, put the fishes in that, and treat the White Spot. Change the water in that hospital tank daily to remove the ammonia that the fishes are peeing out, and keep them there being medicated for a minimum of 14 days.

Second step - while your fishes are being medicated (and be prepared for some losses here), add a starter culture of bacteria to your main aquarium. There are a few of these in circulation - pick whichever one is recommended to you by someone responsible and knowledgeable. I can't give you a specific brand to look for because you're in the States and I'm in England, and chances are our brands are vastly different. Get help on this one. With a start culture, your filter won't be fully established in 14 days, but you can start transferring the survivors from the hospital tank piecemeal after 14 days, and they'll have some filtration to keep them going until the bacteria colonies are fully established.

Sorry your introduction to the hobby was this rough. Hopefully with the above measures, you'll salvage enough to make the forthcoming weeks and months more successful and enjoyable.



Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002