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Does anyone know how concentrated the sulfuric acid in "pH Down" is?

I do not know exaclt how concentrated it is, but if you are trying to lower your pH do not use chemicals, use natural ways, such as driftwood. Chemicals are waaay too risky.

its not that concentrated at all
it doesnt take much to lower the ph in ur water
as mentioned above i agree chemicals rebound alot which keeps them n ur water in a constent flux which is not that great for ur fish
pete moss n driftwood n soft water plants will lower it for u slowly n steadily n thats what u want

Hi,
Just by way of comment, pH Down is made with
Phosphoric Acid (H3PO4) not Sulfuric Acid (H2SO4).

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Will driftwood or plants lower the pH significantly? my pH is around 8 and i would like to be able to get angels. Frank, on the package it says sulfuric acid. I have heard that the pH can be over the recomended neutral for angels as long as it is stable, but I just had two angels die after being in the tank for 2 and a half weeks, so I assume the pH killed them.

Did you test all the parameters of your tank? Is your temperature stable? how large is your tank? Has it cycled? How long has it been set up? Though admittedly the pH might have killed them I tend to think it would have done it sooner than 2 weeks, but that is just my opinion Also check the water from the sink or wherever you get your refill water for water changes from...see exactly what the pH is there....all you may require is doing small, consistant water changes, a little more often...let us know, and best of luck to you...--heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

No driftwood and/or plants will not lower the ph signifinatly or at all. THe best way imo is to filter by peat until the ph is at the disirable level.


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it is a 125 gallon. it has been up since august. Everything is safe. It has hard water in it, does that matter? How do I do the peat moss thing?

what fish do you have in there.

Most angels are not nearly as picky as their finicky cousins, discus. Angels have been bred in hard water by commercial producers in Florida, for example.

Is your tank cycled? This is what was really meant by the question how long have you had the tank set up. Two weeks would not have been enough time to compleletly cycle the tank with fish in it. If you are unfamiler with cycling, there are several good articles that explain the process on this site and several other.

If your tank is in the process of cycling, you will have to do several partial water changes in order to keep the pollution levels down. If you do not have any other fish in your tank at this time, it would be an excellent time to consider fishless cycling -- that way you can be sure that any fish you add after the cycling process is complete will not be harmed ("fishless cycling" can also be looked up with your favorite web search engine).

Whether your tank is cycled or cycling, I would highly recommend that you buy a test kit with ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate tests. Or if you have these tests, post the results of the latest ones. It has been estimated that a good 90-95% of all health problems really stem from water quality issues. If you choose not to buy a test kit, your LFS should test your water for you -- but insist on getting the reading from them, do not just accept "they're fine"

And then finally, concerning your pH, again angels today are far hardier, and it is far, far, far more important to keep a steady pH, then the ideal pH listed in a book or a website. Most fish (and this is where you have to do research before you purchase) can acclimate themselves to a constant pH. But the pH has to be kept constant. Flucuating pHs are very stressful on fish and lead to compromised immune systems with lead to diseases. Chemicals like pH Down can apparantly lower the pH for an hour or so, but the water's alkalinity (the ability of the water to hold a constant pH) can bring it back up after some time. So, you may get different test results after testing in an hour, two hours, 12 hours, etc. And you will have to keep adding these chemicals for every partial water change.

If you are doing this with fish in the tank, again, very stressful to your fish to have the pH changing constantly like this. More than likely, if you and your LFS are on the same city water supply, both of your tanks will have very similar pH, so most fish you purchase will be acclimated in your dealer's tanks. Do not hesitate to ask your LFS what pH their tanks are at.

If you are insistant on lowering the pH, peat and driftwood may not do too much, since you said you have hard water. Hard water typically means high alkalinity which means it is very hard to change the pH. Your best bet would be to get an RO unit or purchase RO water. Reverse Osmosis (RO) will output virtually pure water, which by definition has a pH of 7. From there, you re-add the trace elements that are important and some buffers and you can keep the pH at 7 -- right in that nice ideal range.

So, sorry this was such a long post, but several issues needed to be raised.

In sysnopsis, make sure your tank is cycled -- 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite. And make your goal to keep a constant non-fluctuating pH rather than a pH that may fluctuate in the ideal range.

I did have my water tested at petco when I returned the angels and the guy said no ammonia, and one of the nitrate/nitrites was zero and the other had a little bit, but he said it was still safe.

how big were the angels?
small n young angels ive found kinda have the fish version of SID's larger angels r alot more hardy in my experience

I can see that. they were pretty small. probebly a little over a "quarter" big.

i have found that unless your keeping sensitive tetras, discus, apisto, or wild caught fish. or your trying to breeding them that ph doesn't matter much.