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for a good novice set up, I would reccomend:

20 long or 30 gallon
HOB filter, probably an aquaclear or penguin
1 school of 8-10 small schooling fish, or 2 small schools of 6
a school 6 of corys OR a small pleco, maybe 2
1 or 2 bigger peaceful fish like pearl gouramis
a trio of all one sex platies or swordtails
or some sort of combo like that

My first tank I didn't even want.
My gilrfriend wanted it more than I. Now I wouldn't give it up if my life depended on it!!!

My first tank:

20 tall
gravel substrate
Peguin 170 Bio-Wheel filter
Peguin 170 Power Head with Sponge ( with UGF tube pointed horizontal under filter water fall to break the strong down current from it )
Walmart plants
3 neons tetras
3 brilliant rasboras
3 cory cats

For just starting out I would recomend getting some harty fish, talk to your LFS when buying fish.

Neons are very fragile fish and will drive you nuts when they keep dying.

My cory cats and rasboras seemed pretty harty. Hartier fish will make you more comfortable with your tank.

With general maintanence you will become very comfortable with your tank and will soon want to move on to bigger and better things.

My next project is a 55 gallon zebra pleco breeding tank

Best of luck to you

Michelsa, Welcome to FishProfiles.

I will answer your problems, but I am going to ask you to repost as a new thread, not an addition to this one. As you have gotten off the main topic here, and you will get more answers if you post this as its own thread. There is no problem that you have posted here, just better as your own thread. There are many people on this site, that only look for ill fish types of threads, to help with. Please post this as a new thread, and I will answer your post, as well, I think more people will too.

Thank you.



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There is always a bigger fish...

i am new at this. I have a 55 gal tank with 2 aqua tech power filters 30-60 running. I have gravel, plastic plants, live plant bulbs, a hollow stump and a submersible heater.
I stocked the tank by going to petsmart and letting my children both pick out what fish they wanted. My oldest son picked a peacock eel and my middle son chose a tinfoil barb. I then proceeded to pick out some that i liked from the "semi-aggressive" catergory.
I should have been more informed before I went because the guy working there obviously was not.
I chose two catfish, two angels, and two kissing gouramis
The two weekends later i went to the lfs with a sample of my water, because the gouramis and an angel died. The owner tested the water and was in shock that i had fish still alive in there. He said he had NEVER seen a water sample turn that green. It was full of ammonia. I knew nothing about cycling or any of that. Well, he had me do 25% water changes every 2 to 3 days, and vacuuming gravel. The water got much better in 2 weeks. The ammonia was decent and all other tests checked good. I went to wal-mart and bought 2 algae eaters and 4 of the the cutest little albino something or others, they look like miniature catfish without the long whiskers...duh???
WELL...the algae eaters developed a white looking substance on their tails and the other fish started looking lifeless. I researched and decided they must have ick. i bought the fizzy tablets and some melafix and treated the tank. 3 of the cute little albino catfish looking creatures died. The angel was COVERED in ick and died, and I guess i overdosed my catfish and killed them too!! i'm heartbroken. I want to throw in the towel, but I am in love with these fish i have left. I am planning on doing a water change (25%?) once a week with gravel cleaning as well. I do not over feed anymore and check the ammonia level everytime i change the water. i clean the bio fibers and cartridges every time i clean. I want to get some more fish, but i need to know when, what kinds will do well, and will they develop ick if i put more in here. The algae eaters are doing great now. I still have the crazy tinfoil barb, the eel and the lil albino guy. There are strings floating around everywhere. Is this poop from the algae eaters? They are some nasty lil guys!! Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.
thanks :%)null

chelle

I still like the size of 55 gallon tanks (I have two, which are my "main" centerpiece tanks). They're big enough to offer a huge range of options, a good enough size to fit into many places in the house. Nothing smaller than a 30g for beginners, since many beginner's fish that are suggested (mollies, goldies, angelfish, clown loaches, etc) get much bigger than people say (not that full grown goldies or clown loaches would fit in a 55g tank, but you get my point. I just mean that, in general, fish get bigger than they expect)

My sister was 30-something and wanted a tank after seeing all of mine. After she had numerous failures with regular trops, I told her to try good ol' pseudotropheus cichlids (and yes, it is a 55g). Of course, like most of my siblings, she's irresponsible, so I have to go over every week and clean it for her, but the cichlids are good for beginners if you pick the right varieties and combinations (which I helped her with). There's no aggression when there's enough space, lots of caves, and correct combinations. And, they're colorful and active, and their behaviors fascinate her and her son.

But if the person COULDN'T have my help, I'd look for more "bomb proof" fish. Attractive, good beginner's fish, in my opinion, are like neon blue rainbowfish, cherry barbs, many varieties of gouramis, chain/zebra/yo-yo loaches, corydoras, and dwarf plecos (like peckolitia) if they develop an algae problem. If they couldn't find dwarf plecos (I've found ONE store in my area that carries them), I'd suggest a school of otocinclus.

I would NOT suggest neon tetras, guppies, bettas, common plecos, angelfish, or mixing any kind of cichlid into their tank (for compatibility issues, and in the case of peaceful apistogramma species, the difficulty of care). I've yet to see a beginner be attracted to keyhole cichlids (which is unfortunate, because they're wonderful fish).

My reasoning for this is that many of these old popular fish have "fallen from grace" over the years. I see this mostly in chain stores (and if they had a really nice LFS, I'd definitely suggest all of those fish above). I think that it's because they're so unreasonably mass produced to meet quantity requirements, that the genetic goodness of the fish are compromised.

Neon tetras these days die off much easier, quicker, and without reason more often than they seemed to years ago, and in every chain store I go to, there's more dead/dying angels than alive and healthy. Sadly, this is even starting to become the case with bettas, too (my friend's seemed to have chronic dropsy for a long time). Though bettas aren't as bad as the angels and neons I mentioned.

I know it has to be something with those particular species, too, because the other fish in the story are apparently healthy, usually. The case of bettas may also have something to do with the way they're kept (in plastic cups, for goodness sakes!)

And I would specifically tell them "no common plecos!" because too many beginners think "hmm, I have a 15g tank with algae.. pleco time!". Plecos grow massive, but the biggest problem I've had with them is the waste they create. Beginners usually aren't as good with water changes, and plecos quickly foul the tank with their waste if they don't keep on top of their water quality.

Of course, in the "fallen" species I mentioned, there's lots of people who have good luck with them. That's based on my observations of what I've seen, and what I personally would suggest to any friend of mine who wanted to start fishkeeping. If they wanted a betta, I'd tell them to be veyr careful in choosing, and to buy the one that seems to be trying to kill them from inside the cup , not the one lying on the bottom looking depressed (though they often get much better once put in a nice tank...you know what I mean. precautionry measures)

...this turned out to be a lot longer than I expected...

get a tank that is atleat 3ft long. then your choices shoot up a lot more. Its barely any more expensive for the setup besides the tank.

I would recommend nothing less than a 20 long, but bigger is better.

So my vote is for a 29 gal community tank.

I like the community tank for beginners because it teaches them about dif species and what you need to know about mixing them, and what can be mixed with them.

It also provides the beginner a means of sampling various fish.

After they keep it up and running and when MTS sets in. Then they can go to a species tank, ect, ect.

theres only one problem with cons. there very aggresive and thats magnified in a 20-29 gallon tank.

Nah, the best setup IMO, is a 20-29 gal tank, with a pair of convicts in it. Very inexpensive fish. Not that expensive for setup. Very common size tanks, and easy to clean and care for. Enough room to add more fish, etc.

The reason for the convicts? Well they are pretty fish, they breed easily, and they are very hardy for the first timer to make some mistakes.

I breed convicts for two reasons, first for my personal use as feeders to many fish I am trying to breed. The second is, that every fall I give pairs away to local schools. They have 10-20 gal tanks, and they have them in the classroom. The kids all name the fish, and love to interact and watch them. When they breed, the kids learn even more about them. And they love to watch how the fish protect thier eggs and fry. It is fasinating to them. Then the teachers have permission slips for the kids, that they may have some of the fry to take home and keep for them selves. It is a great program, and has really taken off the last couple of years. Many of the kids have gotten tanks for their birthdays or Christmas, and now have convicts in them. There are two lfs that have joined me in this, as they have stated they will take the fry (when they get of some size) in trade for food and other stuff. The kids and their parents are made aware of these lfs, and made aware of the size the fry needs to be. There are several familys that have actually gotten several tanks in their house now, because they too learned the happiness and fun of fish keeping from their kids.

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There is always a bigger fish...

wish-ga

Before I answered your question I did lok up your "Profile" and some of your threads. It had me confused as to why you were asking such a question but I did work it correctly before I posted my answer.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Devon I really like the sound of that setup. It has lots of interesting stuff going on and a taste of schooling fish as well as some of the larger ones. A good way for a beginner to dip their toe in the water.

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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

wish-ga

You mention cost but you have not set a min or max.
Also your age as to what you can afford school or working and have money to spare.

Keith this is purely hypothetical, just to get some discussion going. I have a number of tanks up and running (member since 2001), most recently a change from SA cichlids to Africans that I researched and took 3 months to complete. I won't disclose my age <wink>

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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

If you were advising someone who wanted to get into the hobby about a good beginners setup what would you recommend?

Think about;
cost
space
something that will keep their interest but not intimidate them
something that they can grow into regarding stock once they get more confidence

What say you all?

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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

I would say a 25g tank minimum, even though 10g tanks look super great when done by an experienced aquarist, they are not easy for a rookie by any means. (Sure do know, I had my fair share of problems with mine until I learned more). I think the best tank of all for a novice is a 55gallon with a canister filter such as a Rena XP3 or a Fluval 404 or a Eheim 2215/2217 or the like. Plenty of room for enough fish to feel happy to not overstock, and room enough to make some beginner mistakes without losing a lot of fish or spreading disease too easily.
Some good fish for beginners:
White Cloud Mountain Minnows- Beautiful, wonderful tempered little fish. I could never say enough about these guys, and when the males dance for each other, theres nothing in the world more stunning.
False Siamensis, Crocheilus Siamensis (sp?), wonderful, like a flying fox or a rtbs in movement, but peaceful and large enough to be spectacular. Easy to care for, as long as they get spirulina or veggie wafers/flakes in their diet.
Platys- a great beginners livebearer, neither as big as a swordtail, nor as rambunctiosly reproductive as the guppy, these fish are hardy, strong, and vibrantly colored. A good choice for tank cyclers you want to keep afterwards.
Apple Snail- A great big snail. Looks like Confucious. What more can I say?
Rainbowfish- Great, medium size schoolers perfect for the larger tank. Go for a 55g and a few Irian Reds for some super flash and color.
Glowlight Tetras- hardier than a neon, brilliant ruby red, fantastic in a large school. Doesnt get eaten by angelfish, so a good choice for a tank with Angels.
Bristlenose Pleco- For Algae, this guy is number 1. Stays at around 5 inches or under, and is very cool looking. Very friendly unshy fish, great for watching feed on the front glass. Tough as nails too, great choice for a beginner, even for a smaller tank such as a 10-15g.
Well, those would be my top choices for the hardiest, best fish for beginners in my experience.

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wish-ga

You mention cost but you have not set a min or max.
Also your age as to what you can afford school or working and have money to spare.

Here are my suggestions

Do a lot of research and when you have finished do more then buy a few selected books

Get the biggest you can in the space you have. Big tanks are very easy to look after. Then a very good stable stand
You migh need some electrical work done if your selected location is not near power or it has is insufficient outlets

Next the best quality of all the equipment plus spares.

An excellent testing kit but not the professional type.

When you decide on your fish then you can go ahead and do all the Aquacaping this can run into big$$$

When the tank is ready after cycling etc

Select your fish very carefully and only a few at a time.

By the time you have done all this you will have established which is the best Aquarium in your area and be on good customer terms as that you can phone and ask questions and get the correct answers.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

How big are your fancy golds now, Johnny? I'm not in favour of suggesting fish that will require the beginner to get a bigger tank in a few years. That's a decision they can make for themselves, but I think we would be better suggesting something sustainable at the size it is already.

My vote goes for a 30-ish US gallon tropical community tank. Tank sizes and volumes are done differently in different countries, but I believe the tank I have now is about 32 US gallons and that would be about right for a good start.

Then I'd say stock with a school of zebra danios to start with, and to learn about cycling the tank. They're a hardy, active fish and easy to breed if that's what they want to try a little later. They occupy the top layer of the tank.

Then a nice school of gold barbs for the middle - peaceful, colourful and hardy. And a bunch of cories for the bottom layer of the tank.

As an alternative, cycle with the gold barbs then add the cories (or some of the smaller loaches) and some neon tetras later.

oooh I forgot about an algae-eater. I wouldn't suggest ottos for a beginner because they're a bit too delicate and it's so sad when they die. How about an SAE?

Last edited by whetu at 02-Mar-2005 02:27

I totally disagree with Johnny in that a 29 gallon is way to small to be housing 3 of any type of goldfish.. The tank size is great for a first tank and I think that live bearers, i.e. guppies, platies or swordtails are good as not only are they colorful and for the most part hardy, it can also be very rewarding to a beginner that the fish are breeding under good circumstances.

I think that this success then encourages the beginner to look at more difficult species and is a stepping stone to greater challenges.

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Well i say get a 25-30 gallon, and buy three fancy golds, maybe a couple of orandas and a ranchu or something like that. Thats the fish i started with a few years ago, only i had a small tank a 20 gal. There really friendly and there not as dirty as people on here say, just do that 20% water change a week and a gravel sweep and they will do just fine, no heater needed. Oh yea and dechloinate the water please, i made that mistake when i was new. You might also want to put an albino clawed frog small one in there if you want,just so the fish cant fit in his mouth.

Hmm... I'd probably suggest at least a 29 gallon tank. I like the idea of the breeder tanks, but I haven't found them readily available at your average LCS or LFS. It's big enough to offer some buffer for mistakes, but not TOO big, especially for those of us who have to keep tanks in our bedrooms in our parents house. I would suggest a bigger tank, but if space is a concern, this works. For maximum space saving, a dual stand can be purchased, and a second tank added in the same amount of floor space.

Something interesting... hmm... Livebearers are fairly cheap, but can get annoying with their prolific nature. Danios are good for starters; longfinned varieties offer a nice change and are quite lovely fish. Perhaps a dwarf gourami? Cories are hardy and hilarious, always a good thing. Female bettas can be a bit challenging, but if you find a good mix, are quite entertaining. There's a lot of choices, hard to pick just a few...

Last edited by Kitten at 01-Mar-2005 21:51

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

I'd say a 29. It's small enough that cleaning isn't a huge chore. It's a nice high tank so you can see the fish well.

A Penguin 330 would be the filter. It's easy to change the filters and the Bio-wheels hold alot of bacteria.

Stocking would depend on their likes but a good list would be:
6 Cories-one of the smaller species
6 of some kind of Tetra or a trio of Guppies
1 Angelfish oe other appropriately sized Cichlid
2 Ottos

Mike