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Good Beginner Tank? | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | im new and was lookin for an easy cool fish but dont kno wat to get or wat size tank to get ive done gold fish and im tired of them i want to try some thing alittle more more exotic and fun thx. Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 22-Aug-2007 20:07 | |
Joe Potato Fish Addict Kind of a Big Deal Posts: 869 Votes: 309 Registered: 09-Jan-2001 | There is an absolutely wonderful article on FP with loads of good information. Take the time to read it, and I know there's a lot, but it'll really help you. But to answer your questions directly without too much other stuff thrown in: Tank Size: Really, the bigger you get, the easier it gets. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but consider this: if you have a 10 gallon tank versus a 20 gallon tank, it should be harder to throw the 20 gallon out of whack because it has twice as much water. A fish producing 1 ppm of ammonia per day in a 10 gallon would only be producing 0.5 ppm ammonia per day in a 20 gallon. The minimum size that I recommend for newcomers is 20 gallons. 10 gallons are can get out of hand just too easily, even for seasoned vets. If you get a 29 gallon, that's even better. Now, I'm not saying go out and spend 500 bucks on a 125 gallon, but you get the idea. Fish: Believe it or not, goldfish are actually quite inappropriate for aquariums. They grow throughout their lives and really need an outdoor pond, because they can easily hit a foot and a half or even two feet in length. Additionally, they're coldwater fish. Keeping them at tropical temperatures will cause them to die much quicker than normal. A lot of people start with livebearers, but I don't recommend those. The fancy guppies are actually pretty inbred from trying to get all those varieties, and unless you're getting them from a specialized breeder (which will cost a lot), they're usually pretty sensitive. Platies and mollies are pretty forgiving (except the balloon types, which is really just a horrible disfiguration), but if you get females you'll have tons of fry and not much to do with them, because LFSs usually won't accept livebearer fry because they're so common. Danios are good, pretty much indestructible fish. They're schooling and very active. They're related to barbs, most of which are also quite hardy. Barbs can be a little aggressive, though. There are many good species of tetra for beginners, as some of them are quite hardy, such as most of the tetras in the genus Hyphessobrycon or the genus Gymnocorymbus. One to watch out for is the ever-popular Neon Tetra. They've also been so inbred that their immune systems are practically gone. Corydoras catfish are another good fish. Cute, active, and (for the most part) hardy. Some species are a bit more delicate than others, such as the Panda Cory. Also, your first fish choice should be ba Hope this helped! |
Posted 22-Aug-2007 20:34 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | thx alot how do ikno wat water i hav? Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 22-Aug-2007 21:07 | |
Joe Potato Fish Addict Kind of a Big Deal Posts: 869 Votes: 309 Registered: 09-Jan-2001 | You're going to have to buy some test kits at your LFS and test it that way. Alternatively, if you have a pool store around you, you can usually get it tested there free of charge. Call around and see what you can find. One note about pool stores, though: they generally won't test for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. You'll want to test for those in your water by yourself. You will eventually need those test kits, though, so you can keep track of how your tank is doing. The ones that you're going to need are pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, GH, and KH. There might be ones for phosphates, iron, and such, but those are for people who are trying to mimic a certain biotope in the hopes of breeding a species of fish or for SW, where those values are much more important. Some generalities about water, though: If you have well water and are on a limestone ba If you're on city water, it really depends on your municipality. Normally they have softer water with lower pHs than wells, but not always. Also, there could be chlorine or chloramines in the water for sanitation purposes. Good for you, but deadly to fish. You'd have to use a water conditioner to detoxify it. |
Posted 22-Aug-2007 21:17 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | ok thanks alot this site is really good it helped really fast Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 22-Aug-2007 21:58 | |
catdancer Big Fish Mad Scientist Posts: 471 Kudos: 138 Votes: 13 Registered: 15-Apr-2007 | Suggested reading: Boruchowitz "the simple guide to freshwater aquariums". it will answer all the questions and address problems that you will for sure encounter without reading. Order it from amazon and it will save you a lot of headache and dissappointment Way cheaper than going through sick fish and well written |
Posted 23-Aug-2007 07:58 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | yay i got a 20 gallon tank yay i cant wait im so excited i think im goin to get some tiger barbs first Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 23-Aug-2007 16:46 | |
Joe Potato Fish Addict Kind of a Big Deal Posts: 869 Votes: 309 Registered: 09-Jan-2001 | Congrats on the tank! Before you get some fish, I have another article for you to read. It's about the nitrogen cycle, a very important concept that every fishkeeper needs to know about. To sum up quickly (although I strongly suggest you read the article and a lot of the other articles under the FAQ tab ): Fish excrete ammonia, which is a very toxic compound. If it stays in the water, the fish would die very quickly. Luckily, there are two species of bacteria which are very beneficial for the tank. The first one converts ammonia to a compound called nitrite. Now, nitrite is less toxic than ammonia, but it is still quite dangerous for fish, and is more than capable of killing fish. However, there is another species of bacteria which will convert the nitrite to nitrate. Nitrate is far less toxic to fish than either ammonia and nitrite, but it still needs to be removed from the tank via water changes. Normally, a 20-30% water change per week is recommended, although it does depend on stocking. Anyway, it takes some time for these bacteria cultures to grow into the tank -- normally 4-6 weeks. This is known as the "cycle". This time is very stressful for fish, so there is a concept known as "fishless cycling". What you do is you set up the tank completely, only you don't add the fish. You feed every day like you do have fish. I know it sounds strange to do, but as the food breaks down in the tank, it produces ammonia. The ammonia provides food for the good bacteria to grow. What you need to do is test the water every day or two for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. At first, the ammonia readings will be high. As the bacteria grows, the ammonia will go down and the nitrites will go up. As the second type of bacteria grows, nitrites go down and nitrates go up. You know that the cycle is finished when you have 0 ppm ammonia and nitrite, and a measurable nitrate level. At this point, it is safe to add fish. You should test your nitrate every 3 or 4 days once you have the tank fully cycled and stocked. Ideally, you want to keep your nitrates below 20 ppm, and definitely below 40 ppm. You accomplish this with water changes. Yeah, there's a lot to learn right at the offset, but if you take the time to get all the important info, your fish -- and by extension you -- will be much happier. They'll reward you with natural behavior. Unfortunately, there are a lot of beginners who just stumble in headlong and throw a bunch of fish into a tank without really knowing anything. I was one of those people. I'm always really happy when people take the time to ask questions. Please don't stop! Anything you need to know, just ask! |
Posted 23-Aug-2007 17:23 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | thankyou someone finnaly described the cycle so i can understandi will get started on tht right away and i was wondering if there is any eel looking fish because a long time ago i saw my friend with one it had a circle mouth with little whiskers on it and was a gray color and out of these fis h which would you recomend:danios, livebearersor barbs the problem with the danios is i did research and found tht they are hardy and most begginers get them tht they stock them in the hundreds at stores and they are very stressed and while i was buying my tank i looked at them and noticed there were a lllllllllloooooottttttttt of them and some were barely alive. Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 23-Aug-2007 18:19 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | oh and i am going to try and get tht book thx alot Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 23-Aug-2007 18:21 | |
Joe Potato Fish Addict Kind of a Big Deal Posts: 869 Votes: 309 Registered: 09-Jan-2001 | Glad to be of help. i was wondering if there is any eel looking fish because a long time ago i saw my friend with one it had a circle mouth with little whiskers That sounds like a kuhli loach. They're neat little fish, but they are natural escape artists! They'll try to squeeze up filter intake tubes or get out of the tank through little nooks and crannies. As far as beginner's fish, I'd still say go with the danios (zebra, pearl, leopard, etc.). The tanks in any LFS is unfortunately hugely overstocked, but the turnover is normally enough where most fish don't spend that long in the tank. Just be sure that you get healthy, active specimens. Danios are schooling fish, so they like to be kept in groups of at least 6. 8 or more is even better. As far as bottom feeders go, it's hard to go wrong with a Corydoras cat. These guys are cute and really funny. Something like C. trilineatus would work well. Corys are also schooling fish, so they like to be in a group too. I'd say if your final stock was something like 10 zebra danios and 6 of some Cory species, it would be a very nice, not to mention active, tank. Now, when you do get around to adding fish, don't add them all at once. That would add a lot of ammonia and you wouldn't have enough bacteria to take care of all of it. Add one species (I'd go with the danios, they're basically bulletproof) first, and keep checking your ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels. Once ammonia and nitrite are 0 again -- and it'll probably take a few days, maybe up to a week or week and a half -- it is safe to add the other fish. What water source are you on? Like I said before, if you're on city water, there's probably some sort of chlorine compound in it for sanitation. You'll need to pick up a good water conditioner (just ask the person at the LFS) to detoxify it. If you add fish in chlorinated water, they'll probably all die inside of a day or two, which is no good. If you are on city water, you'll have to add the conditioner to the water you're using for water changes. Put the water in a clean bucket that has never had soap or cleaners in it, put in the conditioner, and wait 24 hours. At that point, it'll be safe to put in the tank. |
Posted 23-Aug-2007 18:45 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | yeah i dont know i am on a aquifer and i do have that solution stuff its called chlor out is tht good? but i will try to find a big bucket and fill it oh and yes it is city water. Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 23-Aug-2007 19:01 | |
Joe Potato Fish Addict Kind of a Big Deal Posts: 869 Votes: 309 Registered: 09-Jan-2001 | As far as I can tell, Chlor-Out has been discontinued, so you probably have a pretty old bottle. Check and see if it there is an expiration date. If it is expired, get some new stuff. It'll probably be 5 bucks at your LFS. That being said, I have used Chlor-Out in the past and it worked fine for me. |
Posted 23-Aug-2007 19:15 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | ok cool i will and those fish are sweet Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 23-Aug-2007 19:25 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | hey wat kind of danios are there are there any spotted ones available in stores and those cory fish how much do they usually cost? Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 25-Aug-2007 00:52 | |
Joe Potato Fish Addict Kind of a Big Deal Posts: 869 Votes: 309 Registered: 09-Jan-2001 | Those tri-line corys will probably be 2 or 3 bucks a fish. The danios should be cheaper, and there is usually some group rate with them, like 3 for 5 bucks or something like that. As far as spotted danios, the Leopard Danio]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/460.htm[/link] is probably your best bet. They're fairly common and very hardy. There is a species called the [link=Spotted Danio, but I'll admit that I've never actually seen those in stores. Edit: Fixed Links |
Posted 25-Aug-2007 02:19 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | and i read on danios they like plants wat kind of plants should i get and wat should i feed them? Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 25-Aug-2007 02:38 | |
Joe Potato Fish Addict Kind of a Big Deal Posts: 869 Votes: 309 Registered: 09-Jan-2001 | They don't require live plants, and I would actually suggest you don't get live plants for this tank. Get some nice looking plastic ones. The only reason it says that they like plants is because plants provide cover. If you give them cover in other ways, they'll be just as happy. As far as your feeding question, do you mean the fish or the plants? If it's the fish, just get them a high-quality flake food. |
Posted 25-Aug-2007 02:43 | |
aquacliff Small Fry Posts: 9 Kudos: 1 Votes: 2 Registered: 22-Aug-2007 | ok cool thx and drift wood looks cool but i dont kno where to get it is there any other fake ones or do you suggest real ones? Im not insane your insane thats why you think im insane so that makes us both insane....? |
Posted 25-Aug-2007 02:58 | |
ImRandy85 Enthusiast Bleeding Blue Posts: 254 Kudos: 137 Votes: 75 Registered: 19-Dec-2006 | I've got some kuhli loaches and I love those little guys. They're normally nocturnal fish but if you feed during the day and provide a lot of cover you'll see them a lot more. I see mine quite a bit swimming all over the tank. One thing if you do get these or the cories is to get some kind of sinking fish food. I use shrimp pellets for my cories and loaches. |
Posted 25-Aug-2007 08:23 | |
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