FishProfiles.com Message Forums

We are thinking of setting up a reef tank and we already have an empty 31.5G (3ft) with Eheim 2213 filter, so that's what we want to use. Currently it has a single 30W fluro tube.

I have 3 FW tanks, but know little about the Dark Side. From reading a few of the articles here, some of the posts & a book we bought on saltwater aquariums, I thought that we needed a protein skimmer as well as other equipment that all sound strange & unfamilar to me. Anyway, last weekend we went to a LFS to do a little research & get a few prices. LFS said to start out simple, not to complicate things & commence with the basics. To be fair, at his store we talked about a FO system, so he didn't include an upgrade on the lights - but this is all he said we'd need to get started:-

2 x powerheads to create the water movement
salt
hydrometer

Now, that all seems too easy to me. I thought a protein skimmer was necessity - but is it? We're going to go to another LFS tomorrow to get more ideas & we've now thought we would like a reef tank rather than FO. So, will a fluro lighting system be enough? If fluros will do it, will 2 X 30w be ok, or do we need 4 x 30W. Or do we really need MH?

I'll check this thread tomorrow before I leave, but in anycase, will also let you know after my LFS visit, what advice we receive there on our needs.

Thanks in advance for any replies.



Cheers
TW

a 31.5 gallon tank would be pretty good to start with, but if you can get your hands on a larger tank say 55-90 gallons would be exellent because of the water volume, but if you cant doesnt matter.

a protein skimmer is not necessary(sp?) if your only going to be running a FO tank but you would need to do weekly water changes, if you go for a FOWLR or a Reef a good skimmer would be necessary, A sump as well for your skimmer to go in would be very handy because it adds more water volume to your system and you hide all your heaters,skimmers and return pump and other things in it.

drilling your tank would be good as you could put a weir in the corner it instead of having an overflow box.

You could use Synthetic salt if you wish but you can only add salt to the tank when your setting it up and you would have to mix it before you put it in after that, or you could buy NSW (Natural Salt Water) from most LFS.

A fluro system could work well with some corals but if you want to keep a diversity of different corals you would want to go with metal Halides.

for a FO only tank yes that its pretty much all you need and add a heater to it and substrate if you want any.

If you decide to go with a Reef i would suggest buying some Live Rock to start the tank cycling and you could add as much or as little as you want but its ususally 2 kilos to every gallon (i think)

HTH,

Rabbit

You can substitute the powerheads for pumps to provide more water flow and versatility, but if you don't get a reef then it isn't too important.

A protein skimmer isn't absolutely *necessary*, but it is one of the most important pieces of equipment you can use with a marine aquarium. Whether you have live rock or some other kind of biological filter, a skimmer is incredibly helpful. A properly working skimmer can pull out tons of dissolved junk from the water you would otherwise not know existed, especially after major occurences in the tank. I definitely recommend one, even if you don't plan to get a reef aquarium.

For most corals, normal flourescent bulbs won't cut it. You would be better off getting VHO, PC, or T5 lights, or metal halides. The output of lighting you'll need depends on the corals you want to grow. Mushrooms require relatively little light compared to stony corals like Acroporas.
In addition to that, you'll need to consider the color temperatures you want on your bulbs. Many people just have a mix of 10,000K and actinic.

---

And when he gets to Heaven, to Saint Peter he will tell: "One more Marine reporting, Sir! I've served my time in Hell."

Thanks for the replies. I have to say the "dark side" is a lot more expensive that a freshwater planted.

I know that the best would have been a filtering system that included a sump, but my hubby already had the 3ft tank with an ehiem cannister filter & to enonomise, he is using that. So this is the list of equipment we bought on Sunday:-

1 x Circulation pump with spray bars installed (situated bottom left rear corner - with spray bar going the length of the tank)
1 x circulation pump (situated top right hand corner)
An assortment of sand (3 different grades, with the finest grade coral sand being the top layer
Used existing 3ft single fluro light fitting
Purchased additional double 3ft fluro light fitting
1 air operated skimmer
Crystal Sea Marine salts
chamber hydrometer
Reef Fundamentals kit (reef plus, reef calcium & reef carbonate)

We set it all up today and when the water has cleared and salinity is right, we'll get our initial 4kg or so of base live rock to start the culture.

LFS had a chiller on special for $600, which seemed a good price. I'm probably going to buy it tomorrow.

Wish us luck with our first marine tank!

Cheers
TW

We are rethinking the lights for this tank. I think I will order a 3ft PC with 2 x 96W. This can either have one power cord or two, which would allow separate timed lighting sequences. Is there any benefit in a marine tank having a split lighting sequence, to imitate the natural daylight cycle of a couple of hours in the middle being the hottest part of the day?

Cheers
TW

So that we can see how this tank progresses, the following few posts show the progress.

Here is the empty tank.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Next, this shot is when all the equipment has been put in place and the water / salt added to tank. You cannot see any equipment yet, as the water is very cloudy from the salt & substrate.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

24hrs later, the water has cleared and the salinity is where it should be, so the first live rock has been added to start the cycle.

Here is a full shot with 3 pieces of live rock.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Close up of right hand side of tank

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

close up of left hand side



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

One suggestion I have it to cut peices of 3-4" pvc, and make live rock stanks. You cut the pvc just long enough to go into the sand, and stick out just a little, to elivate you LR of the sand. This makes it easier to get detrius out from under your LR, making your tank easier to keep stable parameteres. You can even paint the pvc purple with pvc primer to hide it more once coraline algea starts.
Other than that the tanks looking good. Goodluck!

its me sk8freak20...i need to get premie so i can change my name back

Thanks for the tip, reel big mark.

Today we ordered a 3ft pc light unit, with twin power cord. It will hold 2 x 96W (one marine blue & one marine white). We couldn't really go with a MH (cost & fitting difficulty made this not a choice for us), but we hope this will work better than the originally planed 3 fluro tubes, each only 30W.

We added some more live rock yesterday.

LFS was good in giving us advice about setting up (gave us an info sheet) but it is fairly silent on the tasks we should be performing while tank is cycling.

Other than testing for salinity, ammonia, nitrite & pH, are there any tasks that we should be carrying out at this stage?

Thanks for any advice.

Cheers
TW

Hello

We've been testing our alkilinity & even though we've added Seacham Reef Buffer, it remains low. Any ideas please? Thank you.

Cheers
TW

Don't worry about your pH right now. When your tank is cycling sometimes your test kits give incorrect results.

I do have one suggestion though. I started my saltwater about a year ago, I would suggest that you get the majority of your rock now. Therefore, if you add rock you won't go into a mini cycle (that might put you in a panic). There are many awesome online stores that sell rock for cheap. If you look around at some of the posts around here they suggest some good sites. I have personally ordered from two different sites and have had one good and one bad experience.

Hope this helps a little bit.

P.S. I have a 29 gallon with 20 gallon sump and I have a total of 50 lbs of Marshall Island live rock. It's addicting.


-Josh

I didn't read through the entire thread *blushes* but I'm getting the idea that you're cycling at this point, correct me if I'm wrong.

The live rock dieoff will cycle your tank fairly quickly. I would keep up with water changes and monitor the levels as you have been doing. I wouldn't freak too much about fluctuating levels unless you have livestock in there, which i'm pretty sure you dont. It will take a bit of time for the levels to even out.

Alk is a tricky parameter. It varies with pH, so it's hard to play with one w/o affecting the other. If you haven't already, do yourself the favor and buy a pH probe; much more accurate and saves money in the long run.

In the future if you're still having trouble with alk, I would reccomend one of two 2-part buffers. These buffers have one supplement for alk and one for calc. I've had good experience with B-ionic and Oceans Blend brands. IME they are the safest way to alter alk without messing up pH.

Keep in mind...the best water conditions are stable ones, not necessarily the ones that are text book perfect, okay? Remain patient, for in a reef tank, "only bad things happen quickly."

In a nutshell, what are your future plans for this tank? I love hearing about others to get ideas for my own.

Best wishes.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

Hi terranova

Yes, we're cycling and only have 7-8 pieces of live rock so far. We have read a book, looked through some threads here and talked so several LFS, but remain novices. The plan is for a coral reef with a few fishies. Hubby would like lots of fish, but is slowly agreeing that we cannot have too many. We will be going for beginners type fish, but a must on hubby's shopping list is one yellow tang, either one or a mated pair of clowns (nemo colour). No definite choices for corals yet, only that he likes the brightly coloured ones. No corals or fish until we have a good base of live rock & the tank is cycled. Because live rock is expensive, this may take a while, while we save up for each purchase.

As far as arranging the live rock, we'll try our best, but neither of us are artistic. We'll do our best to pile it up in a sort of natural reef look. LFS suggested a W configuration, so we'll play around with that idea.

Thanks for the tip about alkilinity. We have a brand new bottle of Seachem's reef buffer, which says it takes pH to 8.3 & raises alkilinity, without raising pH higher than 8.3. It's not one of your recommended buffers, but will it do the job anyway?

After reading jmara's entry above yours, we thought we wouldn't worry too much about the alkilinity at this point. What do you think? Should we be doing something about it at this stage while we're still cycling?

Thanks for advice.

Cheers
TW

7-8 pieces of live rock doesn't mean anything to me..how many pounds do you have? As you probably know, they consider 1 pound of POROUS live rock per gallon of aquarium water to be the guideline amount for effective filtration. I have much less than that in my tank actually, but I doubled up on the protein skimming, and I have a light bioload.

I've been in this hobby over a year and I still consider myself a complete novice, so no worries there.

Yellow tangs, or actually any tang for that matter (with few exceptions) aren't really meant for that size tank unfortunately. Most tangs require a 4' tank, usually a 75 gallon is about a good size for them. So I think you'll have to take that guy off your list. The good news? A mated pair of clowns would do great! That's a nice size tank for them, and there are all different types! Geez, off the top of my head, I can think of Percula, Ocellaris, Black & Whites, Tomatos, Sebaes, Pink Skunks, Orange Skunks, Cinnamon...and the better news, is that they're making GREAT progress with aquaculture, and you can buy all of these fish either tank raised or captive bred. It's extremely important to help out the aquaculture industries by buying these fish (and corals!) so that we keep off the reef a bit. I plan to have a pair of ocellaris and pink skunks in my tank. Actually I should be ordering the skunks later this week.

You want color eh? Well, since you're not using MH that pretty much keeps SPS off the list, but there are a lot of softies and some LPS that when placed on the upper levels of the tank, could do pretty well. Everybody wants color. A good way to get that is based on your lights too. The lighting will have a lot to do with how the corals appear.

There are many ways to get good prices on live rock. I'm not sure of your area, but I know that there are tons of online vendors that even with shipping, tend to cost less than buying at the store. Some companies will even work with you to help choose the shape and size of the pieces. They even sell live rock on eBay. The best way to get good deals on livestock and supplies is through a local reef club or aquarium society. I tell this to everybody, GET INVOLVED! Find out if there is a club near you, the connections you will gain are undescribable. Access to group buys and wholesale prices, even simply generous people. I've recieved hundreds in free livestock, and thousands in discounted dry goods and whanot at this point. Plus, the other more experienced aquarists are a source of information. Later on when your tank is more established you can be part of frag swaps and workshops, tons of fun things. CHECK IT OUT! You can browse the club forums on RC if you aren't sure if there is one in your area. I'm telling you, joining my local reef club was the best decision I ever made along the way.

As for arranging LR, it's going to take time. No design will ever completely satisfy you, I can guarantee that. Ask to see others tanks and browse past TOTMs on RC to maybe get some ideas. Also, a lot of beginner books will give you good aquascaping ideas.

I dont have personal experience with the Seachem buffer so I cant really say. I'm not really a fan of using powder type buffers, I prefer liquids or just using reactors. I'm sure it wont have any ill effects though. Still, I wouldn't drive yourself crazy. You're just into cycling, so there is no reason for perfect alk at this point.

Some advice for books-I've looked at just about everyone, or at least it feels that way. I recieved my knowledge from the best, and now I'm going to share it with you.

The best beginner aquarist book, from set up to stocking, is MARINE INVERTEBRATES by Anthony Calfo and Robert Fenner. It honestly covers just about anything you could think of, I guarantee it.

For buying fish...you must get the Bible. Buy a copy of The PocketExpert Guide to Marine Fishes by Scott W. Michael. It is the best of the best...I never go into a fish store with out it. Never. It has over 500 of the most common fish in the aquarium trade, accompanied with great facts, information and pictures.

Dr. Ron Shimek makes the same exact book for Inverts, but it's not as good.

When you get a little bit more involved with the hobby, buy Anthony Calfo's Book of Coral Propagation, Volume I. He swears the second one is coming soon but I think he has been saying that for way over a year now. LOL. I learn something new everytime I read this book. The great part about Calfo as an author is he writes with humor; even though his books tend to be lengthy, he keeps you very involved with his style of writing. I guarantee it.

Those are the books I'd have ASAP, and then there are other ones I would get as you continue stocking and your tank is growing. We can get to those when you get there.

HTH a bit, keep up the good work.

-Formerly known as the Ferretfish

I've been pretty silent about this tank for quite a while & the main reason is that it's not actually my tank, but hubby's. Therefore, I haven't really been in control of what goes in the tank or how it's arranged.

Thanks terranova for your last reply and such great advice. I'm sorry to say that I wasn't able to convince my hubby not to get a yellow tang - but I may have more luck in convincing him to upgrade to a 4ft in the future.

We upgraded the lights to 200W PC unit - ok, still not as strong as MH, but they were beyond our reach.

He more or less has all the live rock & coral that the tank can handle & there are a beautiful pair of mated clowns in there & they are lovely to watch, because they are such great buddies. They never explore the tank (eg go in the nooks, crannies & hidey holes) but spend all day playing in one of 3 corals at the front of the tank that they seem to treat as anemones.

Here is a shot of them. They play in this non stop. Apart from that, they are also just so friendly with each other. Lots of nudging & rubbing against each other. We're so glad they are in the tank.



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here is a full shot. Unlike the clowns, the Tang explores everywhere in the tank. He can fit through the smallest entry hole & seems to love swimming in between the live rock & corals.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Forgot to say that all the corals are looking sad today. They have nearly all closed up & I am assuming it is the heat. It's still spring here, but we had a really hot day - reached about 95F in the city. It's 10.30 at night & the temp in the tank is 86F at the moment, so I assume that is the reason. Hubby bought a chiller, so we will try to set it up tomorrow & hope that no permenent damage will have been caused. Tommorrow is meant to be just as hot, before a cool change the next day.

Cheers
TW