FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Heya, I'm new here, but I'm desperate for help. I've already left a message on another forum but no responses. I'm down from five guppies and an oto to just two guppies.

Water:
ph:7.4 (I have been lowering this gradually)
Nitrite: .5
Nitrate: 0
Temperature: 76 fahrenheit

It began yesterday, when I noticed that four of my guppies would sit at the bottom of the tank and swim in place with clamped fins. They were not scratching themselves against the gravel, so I did not think of flukes or parasites. I searched for what could be the problem, and found a site that listed the symptom "Shimmy," swimming quickly in place. It recommended adding a teaspoon+ of aquarium salt, and it was usually caused by stress. I added the salt and hoped for the best.

About an hour and a half later, one of my smaller, runtier guppies floated down to the bottom, dead. About this time I began searching for other options to help, since "Shimmy" had only been listed as a symptom and not a disease. I eventually found their symptoms were somewhat similar to gill and fin flukes, but they did not exhibit any behavior likes scratching against substrate and decor. Later that night, my Blonde Tux guppy began doing little somersaults and twists against the gravel, but never repeated it.

When I woke up this morning to check on my tank, I found another guppy dead. I then gave them another thorough checking for symptoms. I noticed one, paler looking guppy seemed to have three large scales on its side standing up, and on closer inspection all of the smaller scales on the back half were standing up.

I have treated dropsy successfully before, but that was with a betta that I recognized the symptoms before scales began to stand up. This guppy's swelling I attributed to pregnancy instead of dropsy, and so to limit possible contamination with my two remaining fish, I flushed.

The two remaining seem somewhat healthier this morning after a dose of medication for dropsy as well as continued addition of salt. Their fins are still clamped however, and sometimes they will still "shimmy." I'd appreciate any and all help anyone can give me.


The tank is an eclipse corner six gallon with a whisper power filter (Biowheel along with carbon filter).

I have three moneywort plants, two fake plants, and a small mountain ornament, as well as a Neptune heater.

I hope I've included all the details that would help with a diagnosis, and again, I appreciate any help and I'll gladly fill in other details if asked.

[span class="edited"][Edited by Mogmog 2004-09-04 18:40][/span]

Your nitrite is high you need to do a water change, this is why you have been losing the guppies.

I've done a water change, so the nitrite is less than .5 now. All the things I've read mention that .5ppm is only reason for caution, though. Is it really enough to kill?

Guppys are not a hardy fish and a slight rise in nitrite can cause them to die.

Despite a water change, nitrite levels have risen from this mornings .5 ppm to 2ppm. What could make it rise so fast?

UIf you have been medicating if the main tank, the medicine has knocked your baceria bed, and it has gone into a mini cycle; just carry on with the water changes.

Do not do water changes!

The tank is cycling, and water changes will only prolong the process and make the fish suffer unecessarily. Just hold off on the water changes, let the tank cycle naturally, and your fish will be fine in a couple weeks.

BTW: What are your ammonia readings?

[span class="edited"][Edited by Cory Addict 2004-09-06 03:22][/span]

---

I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

You have to do water changes if the fish are suffering, it just delays the cycle slightly.

In my experience I have found Guppys to be Very Hardy fish. They can live in many different conditions, and through a lot. Mine survived a move in which they were in an unheated un aerated tote bin for 9 hours, and have cycled 2 different tanks. I have had no unusual guppy deaths from cycling tanks.
What it sounds like could be wrong with your guppys is a couple of things: The first thing that comes to mind is a bacteria called SpiroNucleus. This bacteria affects the swim bladder, and would be responsible for any abnormal swimming behaviours. However, In a fancy guppy with inherited genetic flaws, spironucleus could kill before any odd swimming behaviour is noticed. This disease is often referred to as Angelfish disease, as it commonly affects young angelfish.
Another that comes to mind is Guppy Disease. This is caused by all the inbreeding people have done to create "pure" strains of guppys. It is a muscular disease similar to our (humans) disease called Muscular Distrophy. Small whitish cysts build up in muscle tissue, can cause a variety of symptoms, and 90% of the fish with this disease die. It is limited only to guppys, so no other species of fish would be affected.
There is also the fish flu, I dont know much about this, but only certain varietys of fish are susceptible, and some of those fish within a certain species are immune. The symptoms may include dropsy, shimmy, clamped fins, rapid breathing, discolorations of scales, whiteish fins. The fish die rapidly after exposure, and this can result in full die off of a tank of otherwise healthy fish. I had this in my tank. It is passed through carrier fish that come from unsanitary living conditions, in my case from a Pet Store where the aquarium water is just absolutely yellow from ammonia. There is no treatment aside from the same treatment we give ourselves for the flu, good food, extra vitamins, clean water, and rest. Provide warmth (80f is perfect), frozen or live food dosed with a fish vitamin supplement and some garlic additive, provide clean water and air. In your case of a cycling tank, I would reccomend the product Prime- it detoxifys nitrite and ammonia, and removes chlorine and chloramine. There is no need to water change through a cycle if you have Prime. It is expensive, but a small bottle will last months and months as 1 capful treats 50g.
Good luck and hope this helps some!
I hope your remaining fish survive!


Come Play Yahtzee With Me!
http://games.atari.com
Http://www.myleague.com/yahtgames

Thanks everybody for your replies. Sneaky Pete, thank you for your help especially, since it seems your description of fish flu matches my guppies behavior(shimmy, clamped fins, pale color, dropsy) perfectly. I hadn't been able to find a diagnosis, confused about whether they had dropsy or maybe they had skin and gill flukes.

Unfortunately though, the remainder of my guppies have died. I can still use everybodys information for a hopeful next round of guppies (most definitely from a different supplier) though. I plan to let the tank cycle for an additional week before getting new fish.