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I have a 37 gallon freshwater tank moderatly planted with wendti, swords and vills.

Tank paramters are ammonia - 0, nitrites - 0, nitrates - 20

Stocking is 2 - Bleeding hearts, 6 harlequins, 5 lemon tetras, 1-4 inch clown loach, 2-two inch clown loaches,
2 albino corys, 1 BN, 1 Choco pleco, 3 mollies, and now down to 1 platy.

In the last week and half I have lost two platies to something that manifests itself as the upper lip disappearing or else the lower lip protrudes so far it makes the upper lip appear as if it had disappeared. Just lost the second of the two tonight. As soon as I have noticed the situation I have isolated the fish to a 1 gal bowl and started melafix till I could maybe find what was happening in the books. The first one lasted two days in teh bowl before dying, the one tonight didn't last two hours.

I change water weekly and do a partial gravel vac weekly. the last three to four weeks I have had seriously cloudy water that at first looked like a algae bloom but it didn't clear and no algae has appeated growing on anything ( at least no new algae other then the occasional algae on the glass I sometimes get). I was using a Tetra PF300 and finally bought a emporer 400 and ran both on the tank for two weeks. The water started to clear a bit then. This past saturday I removed the PF300 and went completely with the 400. The bio wheels were showing good bacterial growth and my ammonia has remained at 0 during all this. The tank is now clear once again after a water change and complete gravel vac this past saturday. I figure the 300 was putting dirt or something back into the tank from the foam filter used in the aeration bay wave maker or what ever you call it.

Anyway, the crux of the matter is any ideas as to what got the two fish. They were healthy in all other respects, eating well, and plump and active up till the day I noticed them off by themselves which was odd for them and investigation revealed the above symptoms.

Thank for your help.

Ray


Last edited by Rumpole at 17-Jan-2005 21:05

Ray, did you ever see anything fuzzy around the mouth where it disappeared? I'm thinking you may have a mouth fungus (columnaris bacteria) going on. It will eat away the face in some cases, and pretty much take the fish out in 12 hours or so. Certain conditions make it move more swift and others slower. Livebearers seem to be e. I do know that at 77F it is the most virulent. Therefore, it is good to keep temp just below that, if practical. Given that you have clowns, it may not be without risking ich. In any event, never drop more than 1-1.5F daily.

Thanks for posting all of that info as it is helpful. So far, only the platy's have been affected, right? How is the last one doing?

It was good to isolate, but the small size probably resulted in high stress. One thing you may consider is using a cheap rubbermaid bin (10g min) and filling as much of it with water from the main tank as possible (w/o depleting more than 30%). Then you finish filling the container with same temp water (very important to not create temp shock, which can happen even at 2-3F difference. I shoot for 1-1.5F and no more in 24 hours for optimum maintenance.

An airstone, fake plant and placement in a warm room is all you really need (and a lid). From there, you can medicate. With some of the fish in your main tank, I would not want to simply dump meds in, especially due to cost of medicating an entire tank. The only way I would do that is if many fish are sick and something is spreading.

With that, if the other Platy or another fish becomes affected, I would isolate as mentioned, then treat using something stronger. Erythromycin (Maracyn) is effective for mouth fungus (which is really a bacteria). Another one you may try Fungus Clear Tank Buddies. I would also use some freshwater aquarium salt. For a platy, you could predissolve a full dose and dribble some of the solution in over the course of two days or 48 hours. If you are using like a Doc Wellfish rock type, that would be 1Tbsp per 5 gallons. You don't want to throw it at them all at once, as it can bring on osmotic shock. Ditto when they are coming out of salty water - gradually reduce it with water changes.

Salt does two things: 1) Hinders, to some extent, the bacteria 2) More importantly, prevents osmotic shock with the loss of electrolytes, like salt, from the fish's bloodstream due to the open wound/sore/infection. It also makes them create a little more slime.

Sanitize the net carefully. You can do so with a hot hypersalinated solution for a few hours. Lots of salt; little water. Keep it dim.

If you find it is spreading en masse to other inhabitants, you can try the Maracyn and possibly the Maracyn-2 together. One works good for external infections, the other for secondary infections. I don't know how well loaches tolerate it, so you could do less than full strength. It will make a mess of your tank, but not nearly as bad as tetracycline or sulfa will. Products like Fungus Clear may contain acriflavine which could damage or kill your plants. The Maracyn's should not harm the plants.

Always monitor ammonia daily while medicating. YOu could probably hold off the first day or two, but after that, check and continue checking daily until several days after treatment has ceased. I have found the bacteria can often hold off for the 5 day treatment period, only to show ammonia rising 2-3 days later. This is where it is good to have BioSpira or some other bacterial starter on hand.

I hope this helps. Let us know how things go

Diane

Last edited by Cory_Di at 17-Jan-2005 22:52

Last edited by Cory_Di at 17-Jan-2005 22:54

Thanks a lot Cory_Di, so far the platys are the only fish I have seen with this problem. The last platy is doing fine as of tonight. He is eating and active in the tank with the other inhabitants.

I keep the water temp at or as near to 76 as I can keep it.

Thanks for the isolation tank ideas, I think I can put something like that together pretty quickly if I need it again.

On the salt, I used to keep salt in my tank, especially when I had mollys and platys both, but when I added the clown someone mentioned that they were very toerant to salt so i discontinued it. However, with such few problem as I had when using salt I am anxious to start it again. But should I reduce the dose to half? or just use the standard dose of one tsp per 5 gals? Half because of the clowns? Know you said the one tsp per 5 gals, but want to make sure. I love my clowns LOLOL

Once again thanks for all your help and advice

Ray

Oh, I would not dose full strength salt in the main tank. 1) They don't need it. 2) Some of the fish, like the clowns, may be more intolerant.

I have habrosus corydoras, which can be very sensitive to meds, salt and anything else beyond superior water quality. I use 1/3 of the 1 Tbsp/5gal, or simply 1 tsp/5 gallons. You may go as low as 1/4 Tbsp/5 gal for a slow dissolve, should you need it and loaches or other sensitive fish are in the tank. If they do well, you can always add more if needed, but can't take it out.

If there is no one sick or injured, it should not be necessary right now. If I see a wounded fish tho, I put a little in just for the electrolytes. My goldfish caught his fin in the intake again, and it got bloody. All I did for them was to put the full dose into a container with holes poked into it and sunk. Goldfish are much more tolerant of salt, but the rule is to spread it out over a couple of days, otherwise you risk osmotic shock (going in either direction - up or down - in salinity). The salt is therapeutic, replacing electrolytes and mildly anti-bacterial. I let it change out with water changes and I do not use salt any other time than when I see wounds or something of that nature.

Here's my set up

Cory_Di attached this image:


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And a full view of the 36 gallon and the tiny Glad disposable container (which I reuse just for salting )

This particular dosing (7 Tbsp) for 36 gallons, has still not fully dissolved after 3 days. There is about 1 tsp still left dissolving. Nice and slow.

Cory_Di attached this image:


Last edited by Cory_Di at 18-Jan-2005 22:34[/font]