FishProfiles.com Message Forums

[font color="#000080"]I hate to say it, but that really does look like dropsy. I have heard that tetracyclene might be effective, but my bettas with dropsy have never recovered. But I definitely agree with treating for constipation, if he is just stopped up, it could save him, and if it is dropsy, there isnt much you could do for him anyway, so the constipation treatment wont hurt. Good luck!

ps. dont blame yourself for the dropsy, if that is what it turns out to be. i am a very conscientious fish keeper and i have had a few come down with it... it is kind of an inexplicable illness. Very sad and fatal. :#( [/font]

UPDATE

Wow it seems Bater (that's his name, lol) is improving!!

His stomach has gone down a little and he's even built a bubble nest. I've been doing the 1/8 tsp a day of epsom salts and also been feeding the Jungle medicated anit-bacterial food.

Wow this is one of the first times I've been able to effectively treat a disease. (only other time being ich, lol)

Well it seems your advice is really working Cory_Di. I'll let you guys know if he get's any worse, but otherwise it looks like the case is closed.

Last edited by fishnewbie at 06-May-2005 21:21

Yikes, poor rasbora...

All right I'll give him a while until his suffering becomes more apparent.

Thanks for all your help!

Like most fish, they do try to fight it. I made sure I had a lid since they are good jumpers. They breathe both ways and all fish have a tendency to want to avoid the "taste", but within seconds it overpowers them and they fall to their side. I wait until I see the gills stop moving before I move to the freezer.

Honestly, if he is still eating, despite the apparent onset of dropsy, I would give natural passing a chance before using any method, but that's a personal choice. Most of my fish pass naturally, but I help them along when it is apparent their affliction will cause an unusually lengthy death, such as when they can no longer eat. Most dying fish will go off food up to 2-3 days prior and begin slipping into deep sleeps, standing in one place for long periods of time (like 8 hours). But when they are alert and cannot eat and it could go on for days and days or weeks so that they slip into emaciation, then I euthanize. I also have euthanized when some kind of damage was too great for them to recover, such as when a rasbora suffered mouth fungus that ate his face away in just under 12 hours (he as new - 24 hours - and in quarantine). He was clearly suffering as he swam with his face gone up to his eyeballs.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 22-Apr-2005 10:31

They use clove oil in aromapherapy, so go to your local supermarket and scower the 'health' section, or go to a specialty shop... you can generally pick them by all the hippies lingering around outside

Don't forget to freeze once he's sleeping. Thats how i destroyed my GF's betta - clove oil, then into the freezer once he stops moving. Good luck... sorry for your loss.

UPDATE: well, he's still eating but his scales have started to poke out a tiny bit.

I finally got some epsom salt and put 1/8tsp predissolved in it. Now I just need to get some medicated food... Even though it looks like he's not going to make it, I want to have it in case this happens in the future.

Last edited by fishnewbie at 21-Apr-2005 13:28

So the fact that Bettas are labrynth fish doesn't matter?
Clovis oil still works just as quickly/effectively?

Just checking...

Where did you get your oil from?

Sorry for all the questions, hehe...


Last edited by fishnewbie at 20-Apr-2005 20:08

Here is a link:

[link=http://www.vetmate.com.au/templates/StoryTemplate_Process.cfm?Story_No=1885]http://www.vetmate.com.au/templates/StoryTemplate_Process.cfm?Story_No=1885" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]

I use a little tank water in an empty water bottle (about 1/4 bottle) and add the clove oil, then shake real hard. I put the fish in a disposable container with tank water (1/2 gallon) and will often use an airstone in there I just throw out. I put that in just to swirl the water as the clove oil goes in. This helps it go through the gills better. Some fish will fight it, but keep in mind it is used for an anesthetic at low doses. Also keep in mind that you may need to adjust your dosing for the 1/2 gallon tank. You want to have more clove oil than what they call the lethal limit. I leave them in for an hour (they fall to their side within 15-30 seconds, then stop respiring soon after). Then I move them to the freezer for at least an hour. The article explains why you need to follow up. Otherwise there are other methods.

Give yourself time and make sure you are ready. If and when you are, it always hurts, but you are committing a final act of love in not allowing them to suffer further.

I treated him for constipation and it had no effect.

I think I should start looking for ways to end his misery now. I don't want him to suffer too badly. (even thought it already looks like he is)

So... any suggestions?

Last edited by fishnewbie at 20-Apr-2005 17:12

My betta is in a 5 gallon tank, and I'm pretty sure he has dropsy.

His stomach is huge, but he appears do be swimming around fine. None of his scales seem to be sticking out.

He's by himself in a 5 gallon heated+filtered tank with no live plants. I have had cynobacteria growing in the tank also. I do weekly water changes.

How exactly should I treat this?

Thanks in advance,
FishNewbie

Last edited by fishnewbie at 14-Apr-2005 15:57

You wouldn't be the first to confuse Epsom Salt with Salt (I wonder why) .

Good luck. It is risky feeding epsom salt directly, so only try a piece no bigger than a grain of salt, if you try to feed it. Otherwise, just try the 1/8 tsp per 5 gallons in bath.

I will tell you that if it is dropsy, the prognosis is not good. Most fish don't recover from it. Keep that in mind as you go forward to get medicated food (which is good to have on hand anyway) and epsom salt (ditto with bettas).

If at any point you feel the fish is suffering and needs to be humanely euthanized, let us know and we can help you. It's not necessary to put them down when they are dying, but there are some cases when you feel they are suffering and you want to eliminate that.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 14-Apr-2005 19:16

OH alright, I know what you're talking about now. (sorry stupid 15 year old here)

I'll look to see if I have any, and if not, I'll go get some.

Nope. Doc Wellfish Aquarium Salt is salt (sodium chloride). What I'm suggesting is Epsom Salts (magnesium sulfate). People use it in the bathtub to relax sore muscles, and it is used as a laxative. It can be found at any pharmacy or store where first aid stuff is at, like ace bandages and the like. You won't find Epsom Salts at the fish store.

Salt (sodium chloride) will make dropsy worse, if that is what it is. Dropsy is what happens when a fish cannot eliminate fluid. Either the heart or the kidneys are not pumping adequately to do the job. Sometimes age can bring it on (natural causes), but it can also be rooted in infection. That is why some people will try antibiotics. It is why I'm suggesting medicated food. I'm only suggesting the magnesium sulfate because it may help him to eliminate water and give antibiotic a chance to work, if it is based in infection.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 14-Apr-2005 18:45

Last edited by Cory_Di at 14-Apr-2005 18:45

I've got Doc Wellfish's aquarium salt.... will that work?

It says made from 'evaporated sea water'

Ouch! - That does smack of dropsy in a betta, unfortunately. But don't give up just yet in case it is a really super bad case of constipation. I would definitely put the epsom salts in (1/8 tsp to 5 gallons predissolved).

Rather than fasting a day, if the fish is eating and will eat the pea, try putting a single tiny crystal inside a piece of pea. This will make him really poop and draw water off his abdomen. You may want to consider an antibiotic. Your best bet is one that is oral. Jungle has a new Anti-Bacteria Medicated Food and it is more readily available at many fish stores now. Petsmart is your best bet as they were the only ones carrying it at first. Just crush it to betta size. Don't delay.

If you regular salt in the water, do a 50% water change to dilute it. No salt with potential dropsy. Epsom salts are not true salts, but magnesium.

Check parameters - ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH. Make sure ammonia and nitrite are zero and nitrate is less than 20ppm.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 14-Apr-2005 17:04

Here it is... sorry I suck at taking pictures. This is the best one I could get.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Daniml10/DSCN0406.jpg

Last edited by fishnewbie at 14-Apr-2005 16:50

EDIT: - Babel and I were posting at the same time and had similar thoughts

Don't assume dropsy with a big-bellied betta. It could be constipation.

Do you have a pic?

Is he alone in the tank? If so, I would not feed him for one day. Then, feed him thawed, deshelled pea. Take a frozen pea from the freezer and let it thaw. Pop the center out and then chop into betta sized bites. Just feed him 3-4 small pieces of it then wait. See if he poops.

If he is alone, we can consider magnesium sulfate (epsom salts found in first aid section of store) to help him poop too. Actually, if he has dropsy it will help draw water off too. For 5 gallons use 1/8 tsp, predissolved. You can change it out with water changes after a few days.

What kind of food does he eat?

What temp is the tank at?

Have you tried putting a mirror in front of him for a few minutes (this prompts mine to poop when he flares).

I'm not saying it isn't dropsy, but I do know that the belly can get extraordinarily large when they are harboring a huge nugget that needs to come out. The belly will even get off color. A pick will help us if you can upload or link us to one.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 14-Apr-2005 16:09

Last edited by Cory_Di at 14-Apr-2005 16:10

Since he hasnt started to pinecone yet there may be hope for him.

Weekly water changes are actually bad for cyano as cyano shows up in low nitrATe situations...I suggest a seperate post in the planted forum (or do some reasearch in there we've got plenty of threads on the topic ).

For the betta right now you might want to try some fresh (or frozen) green peas. Defrost if necessary, remove the outer skin, the pea will split into two halves, try offering half of a half (1/4) of the pea. Hold off on feeding his regular foods for a few days...the peas may work to clear him out. Then slowly reintroduce his regular foods.
That may work as a quick easy fix...someone else may have a bit more.

^_^[hr width='40%']"I'm alright, I'm alright
It only hurts when I breathe"