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For the past couple of weeks some of my Cory's (out of 12 of them) are doing this flashing action by placing the side of their head against the substrate, plants, decorations and then flicking off.

All my water parameters are good, and my 20 gal. has been cycled for 1 month and 1 week now.


Water Parameters:

pH: 8
Ammonia: 0
NO2: 0
NO3: 5
KH: 3.92
Temp: 27^C


Livestock:

1 Bristlenose Pleco
1 Male Dwarf Gourami
1 Female Betta
2 Red Kribensis
6 Neon Rainbows
12 Cory's (6 Paleatus & 6 Trilineatus)


Maintenance:

Weekly WC of 30% & gravel vaccum
Doses 5 mL of Aqua Plus during water fillups after WC
Doses 10 mL of Cycle 1 hour after adding Aqua Plus
Added Hagen's CO2 system 1 week ago


Is this a sign of some sort of internal parasite?

Another thing I noticed today are some barbells are becoming short. I think what's happening is that 1 or maybe both of my new Red Kribensis like to pick at the sinking wafers I feed my Cory's at the same time they do, and maybe unintentionally nipping their barbells. Any other ideas why?

Thanks ahead of time

bala shark

If your aquarium has genuinely cycled, why are you adding more cycling bacteria?

If the population has stabilised, then adding more artificially might be upsetting the balance.

Plus, even though paleatus and trilineatus are well-domesticated, hardy corys. I think a gradual pH lowering might be in order. Bring it closer to neutral (7.0).

Next, since water parameters appear otherwise fine (including relatively low nitrates), the next question is this. Are there any obvious signs of something adhering to the sides of your Corys? Or do the fish appear to be blemish-free?

As for your Kribs competing with the Corys for tablet foods, the simple answer is the one I use in my Panda Fun Palace™. Break up the tablet & scatter the pieces about. Keeps mine happy!

Last edited by Calilasseia at 21-Feb-2005 12:54

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Nitrites can cause flashing, as can pH swings. But, data you provided shows zero nitrites, and an 8.0 pH with a reasonable kH. So, ruled that out. While 8.0 may be high, mine lived at that pH for some time, until the tank aged. Lowering can be very tricky (and deadly) if not done correctly. Many products can make the pH yoyo in a very short period of time, like pH UP or pH Down, among others.

If there are no visible signs of parasites, the next concern becomes - something less visible like gill flukes or even a protozoan infestation.

Jungle has added Praziquantel to the Parasite Clear Tank Buddies. If flukes are involved, the Prazi would kill them. The product is considered safe for all fish and even some fry at full strength. However, the acriflavine will be harmful to your plants.

The next step would be to find Prazi without the acriflavine and I've been unable to see it any place other than on line. This is the one I woudl recommend and it is safe for your fish at full strength and for your plants.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12098&N=2004+113018

If you choose to order online, you may want to grab some metronidazole because if they continue to flash after the prazi, it could be a protozoan. Metronidazole would be the next safest route to go before trying more drastic measures.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4753&N=2004+113018

Both of these are plant safe and relatively safe for the biofilter. I've not had a filter problem with either. If neither of these stops the flashing, then it may be best to quarantine them if they are the only ones doing it and trying something a little more risky.

As for the barbels. I had 6 habrosus cories, one of whom had long barbels. All had severe barbel erosion and I've had to quarantine them into a gravel-less tank while they recover. I'm going through the same thing you are. Mine occassionally flash and have lost barbels. One had the erosion go so far that he could not recover. So far, the Prazi has not worked and I've had some success with an initial treatment of Metro. That was before transfer into the bare tank where there is nothing sharp. I'm going to try the metro again now that they are in a controlled environment. The only live plant is a clump of java moss I soaked in potassium permangenate 15 minutes. I used Jungle's Clear Water and squirt as much into a container as required to make it a deep purple. This would kill off any vermin and doesn't harm the plant.

I truly believe that a possible protozoan infection, which causes them to flash and scratch, even periodically, caused infection and further erosion. On the plus side, the acriflavine in Parasite Clear is mildly anti-protozoan and antibacterial.

I would definitely be using Pimafix for now in case there is an infection in their barbels from all the scratching.

I'm thinking that such cories in a flourite substrate tank that don't flash for any reason, may have no barbel erosion. They are bound to get knicks and scrapes if they do flash against the flourite tho.

What kind of substrate do you have?

One more comment about Prazi-Pro and Metro. Make the first dose half strength just to test their sensitivity. Increase it a little the next day.

Last edited by Cory_Di at 21-Feb-2005 13:10

I forgot another possible source of "itch" - fertilizers!

Try going a few days without any fertilizers or things like Excel - plant stuff basically.

I've noticed an increase in belly scratching when I use my fertilizers. I couldn't figure out why one or two fish (different each day) woudl scratch their bellies (rasboras and white clouds). Then, with some confusion going on in my life, I didn't dose a few days and no one was scratching. I dosed the ferts and two were rubbing their bellies on leaves again. I don't know which one it is, but I have to try introducing them one at a time and see if I can pin point it. I think it may be the Excel so I'll try that first.

When I add salt to my tank, my cories do that too, but in a couple of days they stop. Have yours been doing it long?

Another possibility for flashing/flicking is external parasites, like body flukes. They flick/flash to try to get them off.

By the way... Neptuneslady... I've heard cories are very intolerant of salt...

Last edited by smantzer at 21-Feb-2005 18:43

Thanks for the feedback

Calilasseia:

1)

If your aquarium has genuinely cycled, why are you adding more cycling bacteria?

2)

I think a gradual pH lowering might be in order. Bring it closer to neutral (7.0)

3)

Are there any obvious signs of something adhering to the sides of your Corys? Or do the fish appear to be blemish-free?

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1) I've heard that adding Cycle weekly helps to maintain a healthy aquarium. Should I stop adding it after every water change and maybe add it once a month instead? What would you think is best Calilasseia? Here's a link for Hagen's site. It's a small FAQ on adding cycle regularly if your interested in reading.

http://www.hagen.com/canada/english/aquatic/answer.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=121&FAQ=190

2) How would I lower my pH safely? I'd rather not use products like "pH Down" by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals, as I've heard they have phosphates which will cause an algae outbreak, is that true?

3) I've had a good look at as many of my Cory's as I could. and there's no sign of anything being attached externally. No blemishes either, though it look's as though one of them had found some fishes eggs and had a little snack! maybe it was it's own that didn't fall off, I'm not sure. Their were about three of them hanging off it's gill cover.

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Cory_Di:

1)

What kind of substrate do you have?

2)

I forgot another possible source of "itch" - fertilizers!

[hr width='20%']

1) I'm using a standard small pea size gravel. It's got a pretty smooth surface.

2) Nope! not using any sort of ferts or trace elements Di. Although I'm thinking I should for my plants now that I'm using CO2.

[hr width='90%']

Thanks Calilasseia, Cory_Di, NeptunesLady and smantzer for your help so far

bala shark

Last edited by bala shark at 21-Feb-2005 22:24

I've never added synthetic cycling products to any of my aquaria. They've all cycled with naturally occurring bacterial populations. The Panda Fun Palace™ has been running 10 years non stop. And after last night's spawning action that I gave a running commentary on in the chat room (which will doubtless become a running joke on the board in the future ) which was (if memory serves) the 64th spawning outing for Mata Hari and the boys, I reckon the filter must be pretty stable by now. If it wasn't, I'd be rounding up dead Pandas, not watching them make new ones.

The Panda Breeding Aquarium™ on the lower tier of the same stand is also doing fine. Again, cycled with nothing more than naturally occurring bacteria, given a bit of TetraMin to munch on while building up the filter. My four Panda offspring from previous spawnings have now lived in it happily for nearly a month, and show no signs of wanting to move house.

As for lowering your pH, this might be problematic. I take it your local tap water must be pretty alkaline if you're getting a pH reading of 8.0 with regular water changes. Chances are doing anything constructive about it without forking out a large wad of dollars for an RO unit might prove tricky. I wouldn't try changing the pH by adding any chemicals, even commercial preparations, unless you're really certain what you're doing and you're prepared to intervene FAST if something goes wrong. In my case, my water is moderately soft and slightly acidic, ideal for South Americans. If I want to make hard, alkaline water for Rifts, it's a relatively simple operation in comparison to the reverse process. On reflection, advising you to lower the pH was slightly knee-jerk because your Corys are South American and in general , even domesticated South Americans prefer soft & acid. Pausing for thougth a little longer, I now realise there might be some difficulties with this, so until I can dream up a solution that won't involve the potential of catastrophe, put this one on hold.

As for the blemishes, reason I asked was that there are some parasites that leave tell tale traces, even if you can't see the critters themselves. However, blemish free Corys still flicking makes the diagnosis a bit difficult. Especially as the bases that Cory_Di covered above don't apply to you. Becoming quite a piece of detective work, this one!

I've had my Pandas sometimes give me the shivers by scratching themselves, but then I get paranoid when Pandas do that ... fortunately, the scratching sessions have been very occasional, and not persistent.

The only sure fire way of ascertaining the cause would be to take a very gentle scraping of mucosa from the Corys, around the head, and prepare a microscope slide. Doing this in a manner that would allow a trained biologist to diagnose any micro-organisms found would be, however, a tedious proedure, requiring considerable skill and an excellent knowledge of specialist staiing techniques. If you don't know what mordanting is, or have never heard of iron haematoxylin or carbol-fuchsin, then you certainly shouldn't try this at home, even if you have a microscope!

And with that, I'll go and ponder further ...


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002