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Hi all! I haven't posted in a long time, but my fish troubles have brought me back!

So, I recently purchased some black phantom tetras, which I love. But the smallest one appears to be emmaciated. Its stomach is almost flat, but I know he's not emmaciated. I think he eats the most! There are no other signs of disease on him, except that all his red fins are very pale.

I had a cherry barb like this many months ago, and it basically just wasted away... I don't want that to happen to my black phantom! Anyone have any suggestions?

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
pH: 8.6
Temp: 74

I'll try to get a picture later on today.

How many times a day are you feeding? I'd do smaller feeding more often.

Do you see him getting picked on?

Are there any other disease symptoms - clamped fins, pale color, odd poop, red in the fins?

-Molly
Visit shelldwellers.com!

Aside from what Molly raises, it could be internal parasites, especially if you observe whitish poop. If he is eating, I would purchase some of the new Jungle Anti-Parasite Medicated Food. Crush it to size. Pill crushers sold at most pharmacies are good for that, especially the ones with a crank and clear plastic base. You can see when you are turning the lid how small the pieces are getting.

If he doesn't eat that, then you can try a product called Prazi-Pro if you can find it. Otherwise, Jungle's Parasite Clear has praziquantel in it.

Praziquantel is the leading med for intestinal worms, if that is the cause. HOwever, it is not effective for camallanus and i don't know if it is effective for things like hexamita when it gets out of control. Many fish have it, but when it is in abundance it causes problems.

The anti-parasite medicated food covers all of those. It has praziquantel for worms, levamisol for camallanus, and metronidazole for things like hexamita. And, it doesn't mess up your tank. All of your fish can eat it and bottom feeders can eat what falls to the bottom. If one fish has a parasite problem, others may also.

Three days one week, then three days again.

If he won't eat it, then I would go with one of the water borne meds I suggested. Let us know how he does.

Is that pH value good? YOu may want to have it tested at the lfs with a high range tester to confirm. That's awful high for a freshwater tank with those kinds of fish. You may also want to get a kH reading to see what your carbonate hardness is. Certain substrates, rocks and shells can drive it up too high.


Last edited by Cory_Di at 19-Mar-2005 11:02

Thanks for the replies!

To answer your questions:
I am feeding my fish once a day. If I do smaller feedings, how often should I do them?
His fins that are colored red on my other black phantoms (the pelvic and andipose) are very pale, but don't seem to be clamped. I haven't seen his poop. ?

I live in a small town with no LFS so it is harder for me to pick up medications. Are any of these available over the internet?
Our water is VERY alkaline (water spots on glasses, crusty buildup on showerheads, etc). It hasn't been a problem before, but do you think I should add anything to lower the pH?

Thanks again... hopefully I can do something.

- Boy, have I got some online places for you. Also, if you buy from any of them, they will send you catalogs. Drs. Foster & Smith will send them monthly and there are always great articles in them. Many of these companies have been around for decades as mail order, but started internet sales with the boom.

For example, this outstanding Master Test Kit is the cheapest at Big Al's Online that I have seen anywhere. Everyone keeping fish should have one. It is probably more expensive to buy the individual kits, and if you purchase a gH/kH test kit separately, will provide you will good stuff for a year. I replace yearly before it is all used up.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=19383;category_id=3233;pcid1=;pcid2=.

Here is one of the parasite meds I suggested. YOu can often find it at places like Walmart too.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=28093;category_id=

Note the price of the same kit here. But, it seems Big Al's doesn't have the gH/kH test kit that Drs. Foster & Smith does. Look at all of the bottles availabe:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=4454&inm=1&N=2004+113074+113565

Now, I did not see PraziPro at Big Al's, but it is at Drs. Foster Smith. I should comment that Prazi is very safe for plants, all fish, including scaleless, at full strength. Inverts should be removed during treatment - wanted snails/shrimps, etc. If you have aquatic frogs, I'm not sure how it would affect them either.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12098&N=2004+113018

This place has probably the biggest selection of meds I've seen online and they have a really good catalog too. I use them when I can't find something above. Note there are 7 pages of meds

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/F62/PgNo/1/Class/Fish+Supplies+Medications/Shopay00.aspx

And, you can get the new Jungle Anti-Parasite Med from Petsmart Online:

http://www.petsmart.com/global/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441806678&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023693&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302030134&bmUID=1111258266711

If you order that, I would also order and keep on hand, the Jungle Anti-Bacteria Medicated Food also.

It would be wise for you at the very least to keep some kind of anti-biotic, anti-parasite/fluke, ich med on hand. And, if you don't have them, eventually you want to get Melafix and Pimafix - the very first thing you should try, either singly or together when you first see a wound or mild skin/mouth or gill problem. Even with external parasites, this can prevent infection and does not affect the good bacteria in the tank like antibiotics.

I personally like to keep on hand:

Rid-Ich Plus for Ich (if there are no scaleless) or Ick Guard-2 if there are scaleless. But neither of these shoudl be exposed to potential freezing (shipping) as the formalin can be deadly to fish once frozen and thawed. Things like Parasite Clear and Anti-Parasite food cannot cure ich.

For flukes and internal parasites, the anti-parasite food would work, and/or the Prazi-Pro, especially if you have plants. For camallanus (red worms dangling from the vent where they poop), levamisol is the only hope and that is only seen in the new Jungle medicated food. It is much rarer than other intestinal parasites.

For bacterial infections, I like to have the medicated food as it is more effective than water borne meds and doesn't mess up the filter. But, if they are not eating, I like to use products like Furacyn (when scaleless fish are involved), Fungus Clear (ditto). There are others, but these are good first steps with least impact on the water quality.

Let us know how he does. And, I would step feeding up to twice daily. See if anyone is picking on him while he eats. If he is getting his fair share, I'd try an anti-parasite med. If he has worms, it will work wonders.

The pH may or may not be an issue. There are ways to soften using a little distilled or RO water with some of your changes.

What size tank is this?

Last edited by Cory_Di at 19-Mar-2005 12:58

Thanks Cory!

Which med do you think would be my best bet? The Jungle Medicated Food?

I will start feeding twice a day. I'm positive he's getting his fair share, and I don't think anyone's picking on him but I will be on the look out. He's still very friendly and active.

How much distilled water should I add? Do I mix it in with the water I'm adding or add it seperate?

I tried to take a picture of my little guy but he got very camera shy and wouldn't come out of the plants. My camera take awful pictures of my aquarium anyways... so I'm not sure if I'll get a picture.

My tank is 29 gallons.

I don't know that you should tamper with the pH just yet. How long have you been running at that level? The fish may have acclimated. Mixing distilled with your regular water will make it a little more complicated. I could mean that if you had a 10 gallon and did a 10% water change, you may want to substitute 1/4 of a gallon with distilled each time. Eventually, with many changes, your tank would work its way to become 75% tap water and 25% distilled. It would be a matter of measure pH and kH to get where you want. That amount may need to be higher to soften it. That's where the test kits come in. I wouldn't tamper with it unless I had the kH test kit to go with it.

If you are limited, I would try the medicated food. However, if they don't like it and spit it out, you will need to be ordering something else. I think it would be wise at the very least to have a cheap package of Parasite Clear Tank Buddies on hand. This way, if they refuse to eat the medicated food you have cheap backup.

What size tank is it?

Diane

Last edited by Cory_Di at 19-Mar-2005 17:57

I was able to pick up a pack of the Parasite Clear Tank Buddies at Walmart - yay! I was relieved to find them there. I added them tonight. How long before I see any results? The sick fish is now becoming less active and he mainly just hovers in the corner. How likely is the chance of any other fish getting it? And also, should I still get any other meds just in case?

The water in my aquarium (29 gal) has always had a high pH. We have very hard water where I live and I don't like tampering with it with chemicals, so it's stayed hard. The black phantoms are relatively new though, around 2 weeks, but by now they should have acclimated, right?

Again, thanks for your help. I really appreciate it!

Well, we can't say for sure that his emaciation is from parasites. Without checking poop with a microscope, we can only go on visible symptoms. I recall a thread about a year ago with an angelfish that was near death and overnight, it started feeding and a couple weeks later was looking pretty good. Praziquantel will enable the fish to shed certain worms in a matter of hours in bath. If the fish has some other disorder, then we won't see any improvement. Let us know.

Well, it's been almost twenty four hours, and things are looking promising. He's looking like he has a little more life in him, and when I fed them tonight he was eating a lot, and moving more than he had been yesterday. I can't be positive the medicine is working yet, and if it did work it will take a while for him to plump up again. The signs are hopeful though. I'll keep you all posted! Thank you so much for your help cory_di! You're an angel!!!

Please do keep us updated. I like feedback, positive or negative so we know how things are working.