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Ok I noticed this about a week ago, and figured it was fin rot.

Didn't have Melafix, but knew from past experiences that Malachite Green would help...so I treated it with MG for 4 days (I didn't want to change medication immediately), but MG wasn't working...and I got the Melafix, and have been treating with it since Thursday I believe...I am still losing guppies, and this upsets me since I just did a massive sell to the lfs

Ok water parameters are:

pH: 6.2 (normal for our water here)
Chlorine and Chloramine: 0.0
Ammonia: 0.0
Nitrite: 0.0
Nitrate: 160
Hardness: 300 (again average for the water here)
Alkalinity: 0.0
Temperature: 82* F
UGF

The tank is a 29 gallon...planted about mediumly...1 pleco (still to be sold back) 6", about 12 adult guppies, 2 neons, numerous guppy fry, and numerous MTS...

Have done 3 H2O changes since I noticed this began...30% each...latest one was last night...

Tank has been active with the current fish for over 3 years now...

No drastic changes have happened (except the sell back, and these deaths) in over a year, and that was due to stupidity while moving...

Guy at PetSmart said to keep treating tank with Melafix, and be patient, those that know me know patience is not my cup of tea...

Attached is a picture of the latest death...Thanks again, Heidi



BBNP attached this image:


"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

Wow, those nitrates are high!

Corys' barbels erode in high nitrates, so I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens to the thin tissue between fin rays, producing symptoms that are similar to fin rot.

I really think you need to lower your nitrates... Put some more plants in the tank and don't remove any algae except on the front of the tank (let it grow on the sides and back). Also, keep up with your water changes.

Let us know if that helps.

---

I'm not your neighbor, you Bakersfield trash.

If I told you that 29 gallon tanks with undergravel filters were death traps, would you believe me??

Of course not.

If you removed the filter plate and took a look at what's under it, you'd immediately know what I mean.

I'm seldom alarmed at high nitrates, as many of my fellow hobbyists know, but 160ppm is just too darn high for Gups and some other sensitive species. You should be looking at a test result of 30-40ppm, not 160ppm.

Oh sure, water changes will reduce the nitrates temporarily, but I have a feeling your undergravel filter has given up the challenge and is just tired of trying to do something that it can't possibly accomplish.

What's the answer?? Pull out the undergravel, purchase an HOB with moxie and start living the good life with a proper setup.

"ParaGuard", dosed according to directions, should alleviate your fin rot; Melafix will not.

--garyroland.

OK so tonight I go home, and sweep all the gravel to one side of the tank, and lift the ugf plate...cleaning everything from under there, doing say a 50% water change (Thank God I bought a python)....Then say tomorrow I'll do another 10% water change, and again on Tuesday, and again on Wednesday, then Thursday do the same to the other side of the tank, gravel moved, cleaning underneath, and only 30% or so water change...yes, this is drastic...but that is also how i feel...how do we feel about this...I was afraid it was nitrates...but everyone i talked to said no, no nitrates...

Gary my love, I know you hate ugf's...but, this is the first time, i've had trouble with them...In the past, I've had more trouble with the HOB than they were worth...always back flowing/over flowering, draining tanks, ticking me off...so that is my reasoning for ugf...your one and only, Texan.

OK if anyone else has some advice or has had this...let me know...and if I have any algae I'll let it grow...but I don't have any for now...

Tanx again, Heidi

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

"OK so tonight I go home, and sweep all the gravel to one side of the tank, and lift the ugf plate...cleaning everything from under there, doing say a 50% water change (Thank God I bought a python)....Then say tomorrow I'll do another 10% water change, and again on Tuesday, and again on Wednesday, then Thursday do the same to the other side of the tank, gravel moved, cleaning underneath, and only 30% or so water change..."...

Heidi, even the thought of it makes me tired.

Now if you're going stubborn on me, I'll have to show you an HOB Penquin 170 bio wheel filter that does absolutely nothing that you described.

Here's something you didn't know:

Undergravels are sneaky. They run fine for awhile, perhaps six months, before they begin to clog from waste and plant roots. When that happens the filtration system breaks down and the tank becomes a very unhealthy place for trops.

My advice remains. Take out the plate ever so slowly and go with the filter I mentioned.

My challenge is for you to prove me wrong about changing over to a Penquin HOB. You can tell everybody I don't know what I'm talking about.

--garyroland.

OK Gary, I have an HOB at home, I will set it up tonight on the tank...the moving and all doesn't make me tired, it's the iritation of losing fish...And Gary you of all people should know that I'm not trying to be ugly to you you're one of those that I love

Is this going to fix the Nitrate problem? Is it going to suck up my fry (had this happen before also)...what are the chances of it backing up and flooding the apartment again?

I'm trusting you, but the first time i'm using the python on the floor I'm calling you ...so tonight not only will I be doing the water change, I'll also be adding the biowheel...(Dang, as much as I love you Gary, I hate the sound of the biowheels, and how they act...)

Could this be the sign of the tank getting old?

Anyone else, want to give suggestions?

Heidi

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"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

You could dose some "New Improved Cycle" when you change filters to build up a good bacteria colony on the bio wheels...

If, I repeat if, a Penquin bio wheel filter backs up, the water has no place to go except back in the tank. The bio wheel filters are silent when water levels are touching the output tray.

What does a Python have to do with water backing up??

A nylon stocking or nylon tie bag can be tied over the filter intake to save fry.

Relax Heidi. Everything's under control.

--garyroland.







Last edited by garyroland at 09-Jan-2005 20:32