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I've been keeping fish now for over three years, have 3 tanks now and have been lucky enough to never see Ich....until now.

I don't really know how it happened but my tank has been weird lately. Everyone was healthy and doing good. This tank was up for about a year and not a single death. I regularly test ph, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate....all really good. I actually have been having to add nitrates for the plants.

Then one day I wake up to find one of my cories rolling around on the bottom of the tank. Unable to swim at all, but still alive. After a day of that I had to euthanize him. A few days later I think I may be missing another cory, but I never found a body....thought he was hiding, but probably died.

A couple weeks go by everyone else is fine but the water is looking cloudy. All water tests still normal, but I do a water change anyways. I notice that one of my lemon tetras that was fat is getting really fat. Thought it was maybe breeding but now it looks really big, so I started feeding some anti-parasite food for 3 days. All other fish looked good still (as of yesterday). Water still cloudy though.

Wake up today and see some white spots on all the lemon tetras, then noticed it on the yoyo loaches too. Don't see anything on the cories or the pleco yet. The yoyo loaches are now darting around rubbing against things. I am pretty sure I have ich. What caused it...cloudy water, the water change I did, the medicated food, the death of the cory??

I read up on how to treat it and everyone says something different. All I have done so far is raise the temp a couple of degrees (was at 76/77F), lowered the water level to create more surface agitation, and added a half dose of "Quick Cure". I had planned to raise the temp some more tomorrow (to get it up to at least 80F) and add more "Quick Cure". What more should I do. What I have available on hand right now is the Quick Cure, Melafix, Pimafix, Coppersafe, salt, and erythromyacin tablets. I really don't want to lose anyone. I have never had this type of a quick massive out break of anything before. These spots appeared overnight on all 5 lemon tetras and at least 2 of the 4 yoyo loaches.

MO
What caused it...cloudy water, the water change I did, the medicated food, the death of the cory??

I am far from an expert on ich though I am writing some infomation for FP now.

I work on the prevention method.

Please not I am using the words "could" & "can"

There "could" be a cause and a reason here.

Cloudy water "can" cause stress and lower the resistance to many parsites and other problems.

Medicated food if not correctly used "could and "can" kill, this "can" cause cloudy water hence the commencement of stress.

Water change in my honest opinion the biggest problem. The parasites can arrive via the water (in my area it is a regular happening during the colder months) For this reason alone I store my treated/prepared water for seven days before I use it for the water change.

If the parasite arrived via the water and the fish were very healthy there "could" be a good chance it has no effect but again if the fish are not in good health stress etc there is a very good posibility the parasite will take over.

Other than raising the temp, more air & water circulation (remove any carbon if you are using it) turn the light off this will certainly lower the stress and certainly no or extremly little food every three days.

I hope this helps you and prevents any further problems.

I just posted a topic in FW this might help you.

http://www.aquariumpharm.com/disease.html


Keith

Last edited by keithgh at 26-May-2005 00:49

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off the chat line so soon keeeth yeah]

ich can can be cured with 16grams of Cu2SO4 (copper sulfate) to 1 litre of de-mineralisde or distilled water and 1 mili-litre of this sollution per 10 litres of aquarium water treatment takes about 48 hours and Cu2SO4 should be removed by means of activated carbon and sucsesive water changes of say 5-10% o the tank a say for maybe a week also if have fungus and finrot remidy, its color is normaly dark blue or dark green if its most likely malichite green wich is a perfect cure as well

Last edited by goldfishkeeper at 26-May-2005 01:44

I'm not an expert on ich but jsut let u know that I also use quick cure for ich. But since u have tetra you might have to look out since you only add 1/2 in general for tetra group or else its going to be trouble. If can move those tetra group fish to some smaller tank or any container with the water from ur main tank and have an pump ready for air and heal them there while add more quick cure to ur tank. This way ur tetra can heal while other fish can too.

The copper treatment isn't such a good idea with semiscaleless fish such as loaches. I'd raise the temp to 86 degrees, then dissolve table salt (1.5 teaspoons per gallon of water in the tank) in a bowl of warm water, making sure no solid NaCl is left. I'd then slowly introduce the solution to the tank SLOWLY, over the course of a day. I have enver lost a fish using this method.

This is what I am concerned about with the various treatments:

Quick Cure(Formalin & Malachite Green) : Bad for tetras unless use half dose, then I wonder about its effectiveness at that dose.

Copper : Bad for loaches and will probably kill all my little snails.

Salt : Have heard that corys have problems with high salt levels, others say it is ok.

High temperature : Some fish might not tolerate well (how can I tell). Some sites said to maintain a high temp in the low to mid 80's, while others said to just raise it to 90 for short periods of time. How that is possible I don't know. It has taken all night for my temp to just go up 2 or 3 degrees (it is a 55g tank). It still is not even up to 80 yet. Maybe I need to increase circulation around the heater so it will come on more often or something.

So today I'm trying to get the temperature up, dosed a second half dose of Quick Cure and added some salt (only 4 tablespoons so far). I was going by the 1 tablespoon to 5 gallon rule from the box and planned to add it gradually. I didn't know about the 1.5 teaspoon to 1 gallon rule. That seems like alot of salt. There is probably only 50 gallons of water in the tank but that would need 75 teaspoons (or 1.5 cups). Are cories ok with that much salt? And how long should I leave it at that concentration?

Also should I be adding something like Melafix or an antibiotic either now or after the ick is pretty much cleared up. Alot of the ick meds said to do that to prevent a secondary bacterial infection.

You'd think that with the most common fish disease there would be some kind of definitive guide to dealing with it.

i had an ich problem before..

what i did...i used ich-x (formaldehyde and malachite green chloride)...this one is safe for scaleless fish although..i only used half-strength coz i have tetras in my tank... no need to raise the temp because that makes the formaldehyde more toxic... i didnt follow the instruction of the bottle...rather asked my lfs and device my own treatment period.

i used it for 10 days...
3 days on.. 1 day off... the next day 25%water change and then,
2 days on, 1 day off... the next day 25% water change

again, 2 days on, 1 day off... the next day... 30% water change and put back the activated carbon.

i see to it that ive treated the tank 7 days after the last detectable white spot.

Last edited by tankie at 26-May-2005 14:07

Salt is FAR less damaging for corydoras than copper.

Tri-sulphur would be a good option, for future reference. I have used this on my tank with loaches, tetra's and brissle noses. It works quickly, but you should keep the treatment going for about 7 days after the last signs of ich go. You can use full strength dose and it does not effect tetras or your scale less fish. You will need to maintain 10-15% daily water changes for the period of treatment, and re-dose as per the bottle directions or every three days.

You will need to increase your tank temp, maybe 1-2degree's C every 12 hours until you hit 28Degree's C. Extended periods of high temp effect the amount of dissolved oxygen in the water. To counteract this, add additional airstones or increase surface aggitation. Although it might be hot compared to the fishes native environment, slow changes in temp. should not effect their health, just as a "heatwave" doesn't effect that many people. I wouldn't sustain the high temp for more than the treatment period. If you've read the links kieth has posted, then you probably already realise the importance of increasing temp to effectively treat the ich parasite.

Personally, i would not use salt. Not for any reason, or in any amount. I personally haven't seen any evidence to indicate it is an effective means of curing an ich outbreak, but it is rumoured to be a preventative measure. As Kieth said in your other thread, water quality is probably a key player. In the wild, the concentration of salt is extremely low, but the water quality would be high, relative to most tanks. So, instead of adding salt, aim to improve water quality and the outbreak of most disease in your tank will be significantly reduced.

It seems no matter what the topic everybody has a totally different opinion on what works and what is a bad idea. It is pretty frustrating to try and figure it all out. I am just sticking with what I have already started now and hoping for the best.

My temp is finally up to 86F. I have 1.5t salt per gallon added. I have the lights off, lots of surface agitation and I am feeding very lightly. Daily, I have been doing a gravel vac and water change replacing 10-20% of the water (and adding salt to bring it back up to concentration). Then I dose with a half dose of the Quick-Cure. The tetras spots have almost cleared up but the yoyo loaches and pleco are still pretty bad. Oddly, I can't find a single spot on any of the 8 cories. No one seems to be overly stressed, although the loaches are flashing and itching alot.

I know I will probably get totally opposite answers on this question too but I will give it a go again. Thoughts on using Melafix along with the salt and Quick-Cure??? I understand that the ich leaves open wounds susceptible to bacterial infection. Is the salt acting as an antiseptic or is something more like Melafix needed? As usual I found some people saying that it was a good idea and other's saying, "For God's sake, whatever you do, don't do that!"

Jester: Na+ is lethal to ichthyophthirius. You want proof?

This was a HEAVILY infected L255. Note the white spots (excluding the natural patterning) COMPLETELY lining it's flanks:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/Kleevage/ooo014.jpg

Here is that same fish, ten days later, following a 1.5 per gallon dosage of table salt.:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v398/Kleevage/ooo021.jpg

I HIGHLY doubt this extreme treatment to be the result of merely 86F water, with no other additives administered, obviously, then, the only source of rememdy must have been the NaCl itself.

Last edited by Cup_of_Lifenoodles at 28-May-2005 19:52

Mo, this is only my opinion, and i'm not trying to start a war by offering it, but i think it's a bad idea to start randomly adding chemicals to your tank in the hope one will treat this... and the other might help with that... etc. etc. In the end, you will cause the fish more stress, further weakening it's immune system, causing it more illness or extending the period you are required to add your cocktail.

Treat for the ich, keep going with whatever you are using IF you are finding it works. When the ich is gone, continue the ich treatment for 7 days or so, and then stop it. Fix any problems with your water quality caused by the ich treatment, then observe your fish. If the fish show signs of another illness, then treat them for THAT illness. If they don't, then leave them be. The best cure for most common fish disease is improved water quality. If you keep a cut on your finger clean, it will heal naturally. Likewise, if you keep a cut on a fish clean by ensuring it lives in good water, it will heal itself. They do it in the wild all the time.

My first response use to be to "reach for the melafix"... but i gave some suggestions offered on this forum a go, and they worked. The main suggestion was water quality. My Oscars, in particular, are often scrapping large quantities of scales off performing acrobatics in their driftwood. I keep to my usual regime and maintain Nitrates under 10ppm, and they heal all by themselves in a couple of days.

This is the same theory i apply to salt. A good man who use to use this site explained to me some things about salt. One day, i decided i do some salinity testing on some local rivers, and you know what? All those healthy fish in the rivers where living without the ppm concentration of NaCl everyone seems to be recommending you add to your tank.

I personally would not add salt to a tank. Others may find it works... i have not seen it work on one of my tanks, and i did try it before being told it's not necessary. What i have seen work, and hence i suggested it, is tri-sulphur. It kills the parasite as it leaves the host. Unless your current treatment is failing, don't switch to tri-sulphur now. Don't switch meds at all at this stage. The results could be bad. I mearly suggested next time you might like to try it first on your scale-less fish, as i have found it works well on my own scale-less fish, and in about 3-4days.

Keep doing what you are doing, IF you are finding it works. I hope your fish are getting better!

Last edited by jester_fu at 29-May-2005 19:29

Perhaps you misunderstood me. Prolonged salt use WILL discomfort your fish. However, it is, by far, the most efficient way to rid oneself of ich (which is always introduced into the aquaria, and WILL spread, regardless of water quality). After the ich is gone, then the tank is to be taken through a series of 50% water changes to dillute the salt until it is in unoticeable quantities, if there at all.

I, too, was a bit skeptical at first, but then I used the aforementioned salt treatment recommended by Ron T Rickets, aquarist of over forty years, along with the entire puffer forum. Btw, I did not mean to sound reproachful in the above post. If you were taken aback in any way, I apologize.

Hi,
If you have ICH, and need a medicine that is excellent, works in 99% of the cases, and isnt harmful to scaleless fish or invertebrates, then there is one product for you:
Kent Marine RX-P. I have found this product to be excellent. It has never harmed any of my fish, and usually kills off the ich parasite within the first 3-4 days of treatment. I have only had ich 3 times, all in the first 3 months of fishkeeping. Tried quick cure the first time, and salt, and heat, and copper salts- killed fish, waste of time and money. 2nd and 3rd ich outbreaks- I used Kent Marine RX-P. Worked wonderfully, didnt lose one fish, no need to mess around with harsh chemicals like malachite that causes cancer, or copper that can kill loaches and tetras.
Heres a link for you:
http://www.marinedepot.com/md_viewItem.asp?idproduct=KM3531&ast=&key=

Last edited by sneaky_pete at 29-May-2005 20:17

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Cup - i wasn't suggesting you had offended me or said anything i thought was unreasonable. Just everyone's entitled to an opinion, and obviously you have good experiences with yours, and i offered a different view. I understand what your motivation was - I can't see a reason for Mo to change if the salt is working for them, and the contradictory advice does add confusion. So... no hard feelings were ever in there, and Mo, i'm sorry for confusing things more :%)

The comment about the war stems more from my "anti-chemicals" posting than anything else. As i'm sure Mo has already experienced, there are those who approach things like Melafix with religious passion, and those of us who once did and where "converted to the dark side"...

I think the most important thing to take away, and i'm sure we can all agree on it, is that you should pursue ONE course of treatment to completion, and not start jumping about in the midst. It takes time, but follow what you have started, and post if you see any problems or something you're not sure of. Don't start treating for things that haven't happened yet, and don't go swapping meds if you're not sure of the outcome.