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This scientific paper listed in PubMed's archives suggests that immunising salmon against Gyrodactylus mongenetic trematodes confers an additional degree of cross-reistance to Ich.

If this proves to be the case, as verified by repeated scientific tests, and the techniques are adaptable to aquarium fishes, then we could see, at some point in the future, a possible Ich vaccine???

Worth a thought. And definitely worth a read if anyone can find the actual paper online.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

hmm, I feel a bit funny about this to be honest. I remember when i started in the hobby, which was only about 10 years ago, ich/whitespot was not something to be feared. Fish got it and tended to recover. Now it has become a devastating illness, and we see people on these boards all the time with amssive ich problems that were almost unthinkable 10 or more years ago.

I wonder if the hobby now collectively overmedicates at every stage of the fishes' life. And this makes me slighly concerned that this work will only further strengthen the ich parasite once it adapts to the vaccine. There will always be enough fish to maintain a baseline infection level, which will enable the parasite to survive and adapt

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I like to think that whoever designed marine life was thinking of it as basically an entertainment medium. That would explain some of the things down there, some of the unearthly biological contraptions

Funny part is Tiny_Clanger, ich has been something I've encountered, what, maybe twice in 25+ years of fishkeeping?

Perhaps I've been extraordinarily lucky to date. Or perhaps I've just been good at keeping the evil parasites at bay, with good maintenance régimes.

And, on those extremely rare occasions when it has struck, it has responded to medication (i.e., by curling up tis toes, dying and leaving my fish alone!) without too much trouble.

I was just interested to note that the experiments on Gyrodactylus in Salmon on fish farms indicated a possible additional benefit in terms of increased White Spot resistance in the Salmon. And whether this could someday be applicable to aquarium fishes.

But having said the above, I shall now keep fingers crossed that the dreaded White Spot doesn't decide that it's third time lucky


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

That is interesting but I am inclined to agree with tiny....In 15 years of keeping fish I have only had to treat ich in my own tanks twice. Both were cases of bringing the fish home and having spots show up within 3 days. ] But it was contained to one or two fish, I dosed the meds and it was gone in a week, both times. The most recent was maybe 3 months ago and I really didn't notice any greater difficulty in treating it. There are some, generally those "conspiracy theory" types, who say that the ich parasite has evolved to a more resilient form that does not respond to meds as well... I say prove it, I haven't seen any concrete evidence that this is the case. Of course, ich does not seem to be as sensitive to Ye Olde Aquariume Salte, but as far as I remember salt was always considered much better as preventative rather than cure.

IMO the main problem with catastrophic ich outbreaks is in exposing already weak or stressed fish in less-than-perfect tank conditions to the parasite. I have accidentally contaminated my tanks with ich in the past, but I believe that unless the fish has some stressor wearing it down, the chances of actual infestation with it are very slim. Healthy, well kept fish, free of stress, hardly ever get parasites.

As far as overmedicating is concerned, I think the problem is really with the instant gratification attitude of society in general. We see all kinds of new medications touted in advertising as wonder drugs, take a pill and cure what ails you. It is far easier to drop chemicals in your body rather than examine underlying causes for disease, and I think the same attitude has infected this hobby as well. I think far too many people have been convinced by the industry that they can spend $50 on a cabinet full of chemicals that will save them the "hassle" of proper fish husbandry.

I always like to say it isn't the drug that makes the fish healthy again, it is the fishes' own natural immune systems that get working properly again to eradicate the offending pathogen with the aid of medications. If you don't provide the proper environment for that to happen, you're not going to have healthy fish.

Anyway enough ranting....

That study is interesting, although I can't say I'm not surprised because ich and flukes are very similar in some respects. I'm wondering if it would have an effect on all invertibrate parasites? I would like to see the full study, because I'm interested in how it is possible to develop a vaccine for a parasite like gyrodactilus....

i would be interested to find out if the devastating ich breakouts seen in the US are related to the easy access to antibiotics enjoyed by the US.

In a way, I'm glad that antibiotics are not available in the UK without prescription, cos then you can roll out the big guns when they are needed.

Whilst I know Ich is a parasite, maybe the fishes' systems are weakened by systemic overmedication.

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I like to think that whoever designed marine life was thinking of it as basically an entertainment medium. That would explain some of the things down there, some of the unearthly biological contraptions

Hi All :-)

Microbiology is my pet area (and the my subject of study) so I'm going to throw my two cents (or pence ;-)) in :-)

Firstly, innoculating organisms with one parasite can indeed (in some cases) confer resistance to another - I can think of examples regarding humans and regarding plants, but none of fish per se... All I can say is that the principle is well documented, and it's plausible that this new research is correct.. Might really be on to something :-)

Secondly, Ich is a protozoa - not a bacteria - and although protozoa do _sometimes_ respond to antibiotics when those antibiotics target cell structures common to both classes of microorganism (using doxycycline as a preventative for malaria is an example), that's not a sure fire thing.. Many ich medications rely on dyes that target common cell components instead.

Thirdly (and lastly - I'll get off my soap box in a minute ;-) ) overuse and incorrect use of medications (most specifically cutting treatment short) for any form of life can breed superbugs. There are a range of dangerous, lethal pathogens out there in the human population that exist almost entirely because of the aforementioned - I suspect fish pathogens are much the same.

Intersting article Calilasseia, thank you. I wish I better understood what it all meant in laymans terms.

Tiny, where are you getting your information that there is some devastating Ich breakout in the US?

Geesloper, thank you for your excellent input and explanations.

It's purely anecdotal, Tammy - just reading people's posts heren and on other fish sites, where ich in the US seems so much more severe to what i see here, in the UK. It would be fantastic to run a study comparing the illnesses and treatments here and in the US, but given there are very few manufacturers who serve both cmmunities, I doubt this would be feasible.

We know in humans that antibiotic overuse has caused resistance, allergies and other problems. It's just a gut feeling I have, I am naturally deeply suspicious of anti-biotics, probably cos overuse of them on me when i was a kid has now given me all these various medicine allergies

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I like to think that whoever designed marine life was thinking of it as basically an entertainment medium. That would explain some of the things down there, some of the unearthly biological contraptions

Doctors in the 1st world (here in NZ, too ;-) ) overprescribe ab's a lot, tiny_clanger :-P :-( Same principle probably applies to all manner of other creatures as well.

Tiny...

Oh alright, I thought maybe you actually had read/heard somewhere that this was the case. So it's an assumption on your part. Thank you.